Patrick Marcel composed a music which isn’t easy to relate to a specific genre. Solely recorded with electronic instruments, "Ostinato" contains very complex chord progressions for which in the 80s his record has been considered too experimental in the jazz field and too jazzy for other genres. This led to the fact that his music got a very small recognition back in the days... What usually happened, when music was too much ahead of its time. In fact, us and other people nowadays consider his music truly outstanding and like particularly the fresh sound, and that more than 30 years after its release. We didn’t hesitate to contact Patrick Marcel to show him our love for “Ostinato”, to ask him questions about the album, the composition process and his musical background.
(HWR) When did you approach music for the first time?
(PM) At pre-school, the headmistress was very involved with music, in the school
program, from the age of four, we would have different percussions like drums,
claves, triangles, metallophones, etc. We would listen to songs for kids, albums
and musical tales.
At the church mass, every Sunday, with my grandmother, we would sing hymns.
At primary school, every week, we would follow a music course with a very strict
teacher, thanks to him, I learnt solmisation when I was ten, reading a music sheet
with a two notes key signature.
(HWR) Which music did you like to listen to when you were young?
(PM) When I was fifteen I was totally into Jimy Hendrix and at sixteen it was Alvin Lee,
the Ten Year After guitarist. I also listen to a lot of Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin,
King Crimson, The Who, Pink Floyd and Deep Purple who were really active at
the time. Except the Stones and the Crimson, I had the chance to see all those
legendary bands live in Lyon.
When I was seventeen, I was a fan of the Scottish guitarist John McLaughlin and
the American Larry Coryell, whose fusion music was spreading across Europe,
but I also listened to the albums that were released during those times: The Dark
side of the Moon; Neil Young’s Harvest; Abbey road from The Beatles; Live in
Europe from Rory Gallagher; Seven from Soft Machine, "Tarkus" from Emerson
Lake & Palmer, or Mike Olfield’s Tubular Bells; MekanÏk Destruktïw
Kommandöh from Magma or Santana’s Abraxas.
Between eighteen and nineteen the jazz rock guitarists led me to discover the old
school classics such as Django Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, Kenny Burrell, Joe
Pass, Barney Kessel, Baden Powell ou Antonio Carlos Jobim.
I also discovered the Picking and the English Folk, especially John Renbourn
From my twenties on I have been sticking with every ECM production, a German
label directed by Manfred Eicher.
I am a big fan of Gary Burton, the vibraphonist and his collaborations with Chick
Coréa, Keith Jarret, Eberhard Weber, Jan Garbareck, Ralph Towner, Jhon
Abercrombie, Bill Frisell and Egberto Gismonti.
From the US side, I love Frank Zappa, McCoy Tiner, Herbie Hancock, Jean Luc
Ponty, the Pat Metheny Group (that I saw live four times) and the Fusion of
Weather Report from Joe Zawinul. Without mentioning John Coltrane, Miles
Davis, Bill Evans and Carla Bley.
(HWR) What was your main inspiration when you decided to create “Ostinato”?
(PM) As the human hear tends to work like a computer that records, digests and gives
back its small recipe, my point of sailing, more experimental than musical, rather
than following an inspiration, consisted in trying to invent a new language. With
the technical help of chords, arpeggios, etc., laboriously achieved through
research, I tried to define a new music, which would maintain a virginal side,
without being polluted by any familiar reminiscences as well as an original side,
escaping cultural references. A direction similar to J. S. Bach composing style,
made of imitations, retrograde movements, subject development through
diminuendo, crescendo and agogic method, narrow and diverse intervals, mirror
fugues and their reversals.
Like the painter Picasso, who reproduced, with elements of his own language,
the scenes of a Velasquez painting, I attempted different sound transformation
experiences over some existing music material, all genres confused: pop, classic,
jazz, etc., trying to find answers to questions such as: which melody could be
suggested on a re-harmonized classic jazz sheet with contemporary chords: 9 th ,
11 th , 13 th ? Or: how would any melody sound if it was placed on the second or the
fourth note of each chord rather than on the third? Or, if it was on another mode
and followed by some chords of a different tonality? Again, without neglecting
pure inspiration, I gladly let my Ego take control of the creative process with
decisions like: avoiding carefully the use of basic 7 th chords (maj 7, m7, dom 7,
m7 5b) to sound less “traditional jazz”, preferring second chords (over 2, 9 add)
or fourth (over 4, 11 th ) as well as modes, polytonalities, asymmetric measures.
The use of contemporary means like synthesizers, sequencers, drum machines,
allows you to put some futurist accents, reinforcing the “science fiction” aspect
and suggesting a kind of dehumanized music, at the border of cybernetic, giving
the impression that the sounds play by themselves, evolved far from any human
presence, a bit like concrete or atonal music or what you hear in some Joe
Satriani or Steve Vai’s albums.
In any case, concerning the pure inspirational part, in each piece of the album
Ostinato, if someone would ask me who among my favourite artists were those I
feel I was influenced the most, I would say:
(HWR) Which were the instruments used for Ostinato?
(PM) The instruments I used were Roland MSQ 700, Sequencial circuits Drumtracks
and Six Trak, Korg EX 800 and Roland GR 700 controlled from a Roland synth
(HWR) Was this music meant to be recorded with electronic instruments since the
beginning, or you had the idea to recording again with acoustic instruments?
(PM) At the beginning, this music was written on sheets, I hence gathered some
musicians, good readers, in order to interpret it.
The chosen formation that followed me to play Ostinato was a sextet: a flute, a
sax alto, a tenor, a baritone, a piano, a bass guitar and a drum set.
I have never recorded with the acoustic group because we never passed the
rehearsals stage. We rehearsed in the cellar of the house I used to live in, where I
had set our studio. Those rehearsals lasted three months (two hours per week) and that time was
spent to play only Afrolydien, Contraste and Ostinato with some brass and a real
rhythm section which brought that music to another dimension.
Although I’ve had a similar experience at Berkeley, I was stil a debutant arranger
who involved professionals, without paying them, in his personal project and so I
felt a growing pressure.
I understood later that it is very hard to keep a grand ensemble without funding,
even for artists supported by a big label. Miles Davis, who was using drugs after
breaking up with his Nonet, due to difficulties in finding gigs, is an example.
(HWR) Was the idea of using electronic instruments a consequence of this?
(PM) It’s indeed after the initial project failure that the decision to use machines to
play this music was forced by the events, deeply encouraged by the technologic
revolution in place during those years.
(HWR) Before releasing it as a auto-production, did you send the demos to some labels
(PM) Yes, I tried to send the music to a few labels which I liked such as ECM, but this
was their answer.
(HWR) What was the idea behind the auto-production of the album?
(PM) At that time, auto-production was in the air and was even encouraged by
manuals on employment methods, the birth of free radios, etc. A lot of French
musicians auto-produced their albums, as proved by the 52 nd rue Est. label’s
(HWR) The sculpture on the album cover was made by Maurice Jean. Why was it chosen
as the cover?
(PM) It was the spiritual side that comes out of the character attitude, as well as the
half ancient, half contemporary décor aspect.
(HWR) Why haven’t you released any other album after this marvellous piece?
(PM) This album wasn’t very appreciated by the jazz fans, being too synthy and not
acoustic enough and on the other side, it was too jazzy to be loved by the
electronic music fans, as the trends were more pop at that time.
First of all, it was a first production and so because of a lack of experience, during
the six months following the album release, I neglected the promotional part, not
having envisaged any commercial strategy (advertisements in the specialised
magazines, etc.) beside giving the LP as a present to local radios. Although
Ostinato was distributed across the jazz scene by quite a popular label, I quickly
realised that it was not easy to sell, even in concert.
The label responsible (52 nd rue Est.) was more concerned about promoting his
headliner (the American saxophonist Archie Shepp), who spread the albums that
us, less known musicians, gave him to keep, enriching his own catalogue.
Concerning the concerts, the formula that we had chosen for live productions
worked well in the cultural centres, but it was a creation, it was hard to adapt, to
play in bars or night clubs. We didn’t have an agent or a tour manager, our field
of action was limited to a regional level and finding some gigs was really hard.
During the two years of this adventure, the frequency of our concerts was about
one per trimester. I used to do two gigs per week as a guitarist in show
One has also to remember that 1988 was the year of the compact disk and the
laser turntable, which were very successful. The sells of the CD format quickly
On top of this, in the spring of 1986, the house I was living in was sold, therefore
I was very busy for three months, moving out and moving in. The following year,
after signing a ten years contract to work for the ateliers “Guitare” of different
cultural centres of Lyon, I settled down as a freelance independent music
All this contributed in my decision to step a bit away from electronic music,
concentrating, under the pressure of very talented students, on a dedicated study
of classic Spanish and Brazilian music.
Translated from French by Guglielmo Corduas
Isabelle Powaga / Antena
When Isabelle Powaga played in the Paris subway back in the 80s her train went into the right direction. From the money, she earned in the subway, she soon bought her first music equipment and shortly after founded the bossa nova- synthpop trio Antena with Pascale Moiroud and Sylvain Fasy. Best known for their debut album, Camino del Sol" (1982), they revolutionized electronic music with their bossa-nova inflected tunes.
(HWR) At young age you stayed for some time in London before you returned to your hometown Paris, where you then founded your band Antena. How would you describe this period of time in your life?
(IA) I left home when I was 16 years old, was emancipated at 17 and from there on I had the chance to go and work as an Au Pair to look after the children of Rick Wakeman, who was the keyboard player of the band YES. This first job experience taught me a lot about how to work and make a living out of your passion. My passion is and has always been music and it was only by pure coincidence that I was determined to live this experience.
I came back knowing that this passion of mine was not just a hobby but that it was going to be my whole life.
(HWR) Is it true that the band name Antena was inspired by Kraftwerk's track „Antenne“?
(IA) It's the song „Antenne“ from Kraftwerk's album „Radio Activity“ and it says:
„I'm the Antenna, catching vibration, you're the transmitter, give information!“
I thought the message is deep, it is exactly the way I feel about making music and sending it to the world. Music is the ultimate communication form and so ancient, maybe it is the first way of communication ever. This idea that everything is made of soundwaves and that as a musician you would catch these vibrations to send it back to the world is just pure magic. I want to be an Antenna and with only one N, Latin way, more simple, I like that.
(HWR) Which were your musical influences and how did they help you to define your own sound?
(IA) There were three of us and we had a common interest in music. With Pascale we had the new wave /cold wave and English pop from Bowie to Japan, with Sylvain we had more the jazz in common. The bossa nova is the music from my childhood and also I would call myself a very Woodstock orientated hippy, from Jimi Hendrix to CSN&Y. I guess you can hear all of that in our music and my influences haven't changed over the time – any music I loved in the past is still on my turntable. There's always more of course, I love new things , but I still love and value my old records.
(HWR) How did the idea arise to re-interpret the famous Stan Getz and Astrud Gilberto track „The Girl From Ipanema“ to „"The Boy From Ipanema“?
(IA) It was part of our first demo tape, something I used to sing in Paris Underground to make some money. When John Foxx and Gareth Jones decided they wanted to produce it for our first single, we celebrated a giant party in our flat. Can you imagine... One of your favourite artist (Ultravox and even his solo album Metamatics, was both in Pascale's and my vinyl collection) wants to produce and release your first record? These were crazy news for us!
(HWR) The Boy From Ipanema“ melts electronic sound with samba. Can you tell us more about the recording process and story behind this track?
(IA) John Foxx and Gareth Jones had this crazy vocoder which we (re-)used. His place was like a heaven for us, the studio was located in a garden – to record there was my very first studio experience ever. The TR808 and Bass Line 303 were stuff Pascale and I bought after being down in Paris subway, going from Porte d’Orléans to Porte de Clignancourt. We were playing guitar in the subway to make enough money to buy this new equipment, because we had no drummer and no bass player for our band.
(HWR) Which other equipment one could find in your studio?
(IA) Oh, it was a big mess! You could find lots of what they call vintage keyboards (Mini Moog, Sh 09, a Wurlitzer offered by Marc Moulin, my father in law when Agatha was born), acoustic perks, guitars, basses, but also a big computer with lots of different pluggings, high tech speakers, ancient instruments from all other the world... But my studio is my sanctuary and «one» could not find it, not even know where it is, unless he has been invited in advance.
(HWR) A track like Camino Del Sol“ combines perfectly a sense of melancholy with bossa, samba, jazz but also electronic elements. How come you sometimes sing in French, sometimes Spanish (like in Camino Del Sol) or other languages?
(IA) I guess I feel like this Antena thing is like being a citizen of the world – I also sung in German, those are the 4 languages I speak: Fench, English, Spanish and German. But the music is more important for me than the words, the words in a song first come as notes and sounds, music is the ultimate universal language.
(HWR) You dedicated a few of your songs as love songs for your young child, that you call Achilles. Please tell us more about this.
(IA) Achilles, Penelope, Agathe and Elliott, plus now my grand daughter Manisa are my life besides music. Today Achilles is 32 years old and a beautiful man, I’m so proud of him, just in the way as I was 32 years ago when I was becoming a mother for the first time. I’m so proud of all of them. I only want to spend my time and energy to make sure they know how lucky we are to be part of this life experience.
Penelope is for the moment the only one who carried on the music in our family, under the name Penelope Antena or Antelope she is making her own things, and is such a beautiful and independent woman... How not to be proud.
(HWR) Looking back to your music career in the 80s, which were the most exciting anecdotes for you?
(IA) This is difficult, it has been almost 40 years of time... Well, it could range between being hugged by Stevie Wonder, to be named the international best singer at the Tokyo music festival and play at the Tokyo Dome with Earth Wind and Fire... The most exiting moment may have been being the love of Dirk Schoufs’s life and seing how the music business can kill ones dream or even life, knowing, I’ll never be a star. I have my own star system and the music business has no part in it.
(HWR) Tell us something about your current involvement in the music field.
(IA) I do a lot of production and produced a first album for a young artist, which is form e a sensation like offering them their Camino Del Sol. I also have a work station, you can call it a record company... The structure I built with my sister Axles Solar. We are mainly doing some dance music production but all music is welcome.
Peter Pichl / Dambisa
Dambisa is one of those music projects that we simply love, for its essential mixture of Krautrock, jazz and Afro-Arabic sound elements. Their secret ingredient is the right hint of exoticism, that gives Dambisa's only album "Eritrea" (1984) a unique signature. Peter Pichl, bass player and multi-percussionist of the band, takes us on their journey. How come a German band makes the name of an Eritrean river to their musical creed?
(HWR) First of all, it is something unusual to encounter a record called "Eritrea", which was produced 1984 in Germany. How did the fascination for the distant African sounds come about?
(PP) I would say that there has always been a fascination with the music and sounds of distant countries and cultures. Whether that was blues, rock 'n' roll, country, blue grass, jazz, soul etc. from America, the latin American music, rhythm of the salsa, samba, bossa nova, or just sounds from Africa or elsewhere. And the sounds from Africa are also very different. Since the Arab region differs significantly from southwest Africa.
Dambisa's merger of American/British-influenced jazz-rock music and Arabic sounds is due to the coincidental fact that saxophonist/flutist Herbert Koschmieder met Oud-player and singer Jamal Jassin during sessions in the Hannover bar scene. They always jamed together and they had the idea to form a band. And so things got started...
(HWR) What does Dambisa mean or stand for?
(PP) As far as I remember stories from Jamal, it's a river in Eritrea.
(HWR) Did you have access to special instruments that allowed you more easy to explore different and new sounds?
(PP) The special instrument that makes the sound of Dambisa extraordinary is Jamal's Oud and, of course, his singing in his native language. All other instruments were pretty conventional. The guitarist Gerd Jaeschke had a guitar synthesizer, with which he could create extraordinary sounds.
(HWR) The track "Jamila" stands out for its driving instrumentals that could make it almost be perceived as a dance track without losing its folkloristic approach.
(PP) Back then Jamila was the two-year-old daughter of Jamal. She is also the "cover girl". We always tried to combine sophisticated with danceable music. Wherever you want to fix differences or similarities ... There is music that you tend to dance inwardly, and there is music that makes you dance physically. Both are great!
(HWR) How come Dambisa released only one record. Did you continue afterwards to make music together but without any releases?
(PP) The band Dambisa in its original constellation, which also recorded the record, existed about two and a half years.As is often the case, musicians get together and after a while they disperse again to go other ways. It's like any other form of relationship, especially at a young age.
(HWR) You have also been involved into the band project called Coconut that put out the more Latin Jazz sound focused record "Makes Me A Fool" (1987). Is there any way you could connect your work within these two projects?
(PP) The band Coconut I founded after the breakup of Dambisa. As far as the style is concerned, one can find all the answers to that in the answer to the first question. My interest in everything has a wide range. And I love and enjoy being able to work constantly with different great musicians.
(HWR) By looking back in time would you say that there were many German bands that were exploring an "exotic" sound that was far away from the typical pop music that was climbing the charts?
(PP) My personal influences were (and are) very diverse. Even bands like Deep Purple have used some classical music or influences from the Balkans. The Beatles with partly Indian influences. John McLoughlin with his band Shakti. Norwegian musicians like Jan Garbarek and Terje Rypdal, who make their geographic environment sound to me. In the German area I think of bands like Embrio, Alex Oriental Experience and Tri Atma, which I do not know very well.
Ever heard Italian library music encountering Brazilian samba? Well, this laidback excursion floating close to the volcanic heat won't let you down. In Marco Persichetti's "Il Tempo, La Memoria E Lei" you will discover a melange of classical with a vibrantly contemporary sound. Can this really have been recorded in a Lilliputian studio? You would never have guessed...
(HWR) What happened in the previous years before the release of "Il Tempo, La Memoria E Lei..." (1984) and what brought you to make music?
(MP) My studies in music were classical. I started studying piano at 10, but from the very beginning I discovered that I'd like to improvise my own composition on piano (much influenced by Debussy, an Author I loved much at that time). Gradually I realised that my ambition was to became a professional musician, and so I studied piano and composition at the Rome Conservatory Santa Cecilia. Besides classical music, I loved different genres; jazz (Gershwin was my very first musical love), and Brazilian music, that I and my brother Gianluca knew very well. We owned lots of marvellous bossa nova LPs, that our father carried from Brazil when he visited his brother living in São Paulo.
(HWR) "Il Tempo, La Memoria E Lei..." was your first album. How easy or difficult it was for you to find a musical starting point?
(MP) It was easy. In 1984 I was in a big impasse and crisis, having spent many years searching a personal way in classical contemporary music, with no success for me. I thought a lot, wrote few, with much effort, many doubts, and just a bit of satisfaction. So when I had the occasion to realise an LP of "background music", I felt myself finally free to make what I'd like to. I knew that I was doing something not so artistically high, but I had fun doing it, and so the music came effortless and fluently. Today I think that I was simply making my music or starting to know myself.
(HWR) You were saying that your LP was used as background music, do you remember what it was used for?
(MP) Those LP were detected by music assistants in the RAI studios (Italian television company), and they used them for news and various kind of programs. Only once, I heard one tune (it was "Volando con te") under a sport program on television.
(HWR) Can you tell us more behind the meaning of the record title? It sounds quite nostalgic, almost as if it is dedicated to someone.
(MP) I liked that title because it seemed to me mysterious and evocative...The time (of our lives) that flows, with its memories...and "her"...not a real person, rather the eternal "feminine" that we search in our souls, and that saves our lives...
(HWR) Which were your intentions with the album?
(MP) As I have told you, I had no particular directions...I was specially attracted at that time by fusion musicians like Dave Grusin, Ralph Towner, and Pat Metheny...my ambition was merge a jazz feeling with classical structures, surpassing the limitations of the simple song structure.
(HWR) The track "Vento Di Terra" is for us the most outstanding one, because of its so perfectly melting essential percussions that carry rather gentle vibes with the harmonious moody electronic sounds. What was the idea behind the track?
(MP) In "Vento di terra" there is a contrast, that is for me the point of interest of the tune: on one side, a very idiomatic set of typical Brazilian percussions, and a rhythm of samba; on the other side, the very "abstract" and contrapuntal writing of the melodic lines, that is quite far from the typical samba atmosphere. In fact I didn't want to compose a classical samba, but rather something new, on a samba rhythm.
(HWR) Which was your studio setup looking like?
(MP) The whole record was made in a Lilliput studio that was contained in a car garage. I obtained to transport there a real harp and a real little harpsichord...there were some odd vintage music instruments, like a little keyboard, three octaves only, that imitated the sound of the upright bass! The sound engineer , "Cicci" Santucci, was also an excellent trumpet player, and so played the three trumpets in "Girotondo per Francesca".
(HWR) You worked together with your brother Gianluca Persichetti. Tell us more about your collaboration.
(MP) In my brother Gianluca the love for Brazilian music has become quite a religion. He has worked with many outstanding Brazilian musicians, founded his own groups devoted to this genre, and performs often in Rome and out. I have played with him and his groups many times, the last few years ago (in 2014).
(HWR) How to imagine the meantime in between ""Il Tempo, La Memoria E Lei..." (1984) and your second release "Noi Quattro" (1987)?
(MP) Going towards the realisation of my second LP I was encouraged by the new producer to move to a more "orchestral" thinking (also if realised mostly by "virtual" instruments). It was so more ambitious, but probably less well-balanced. The general direction was, however, the same of the first album, and I still find some tunes very imaginative.
(HWR) Did you and your brother feel part of Rome's independent music scene back in the days?
(MP) No, I had very few contacts with the musical scene of Rome, that I didn't knew...I was rather isolate, my knowledge of music deriving by listening on radio or LP, or from my studies.
(HWR) But was there a strong local music community? Which musicians you encountered for collaborations and exchange of inspiration?
(MP) Well, in Rome there was, as you can imagine, every kind of musical activity; classical, jazz (the Conservatory of Rome was the first in Italy to have a jazz course), folk, progressive, and so on...I felt that the right way for my music was to cooperate with jazz musicians, for I found in them the sound, the feeling and the quality of improvisation I was searching for. They had to do something different from what they were used to, and so I, and that was the challenge. I had the luck, living in Rome, to work with excellent musicians that were very young at that time and now are among the best jazz players in Italy, like Maurizio Giammarco, Roberto Gatto, Massimo Moriconi, Fabrizio Sferra and many others....and my brother Gianluca. We have played sometimes also in duo, piano and guitar, that is a difficult but a stimulating balance.
Tony Palkovic melted fusion and funk in a unique way, letting guitar and synthesizers define his sound. The prestigious Guitar Player Magazine commented "If you haven't yet heard Tony Palkovic's brand of music, you don't know what you're missing”. And so here is the chance to not only explore his sound, but also the world behind.
(HWR) Let's start from the very beginning: How did you get in touch with music and what were your influences to that time?
(TP) I started playing music with the trumpet when I was 9 and played in the grade school and high school bands.
I first heard the grade school band when they had played a concert for the school. The band director was a real serious, dramatic, passionate musician and when he started to conduct, you felt the drama of the moment. The drums started a cadence and as the rest of the band came in, I started to get this sensation from the top of my head to my toes and I was moved by the sound of the whole band. That led to the decision to take lessons and play the trumpet.
At 12, I started to take guitar lessons and played both instruments. After several months, I put a band together with a drummer and another guitarist that I knew in school.
Soon after, I had asked my parents if I could go to a recording studio and record a couple of songs. So, we recorded two songs. We played them straight through a couple of times without overdubs because that was the way it was back in those days. I liked the experience of being in the studio and this fuelled the fire. I had a chance to play in front of the whole school with 2 other guitar players and a drummer which started my experience with playing in front of lots of people. I was kicked out of the high school band 2 times: The first time as a Freshmen when a Senior smashed me with a shutter door as I was walking out of the band room which I in return used to defend myself by slamming him back with it, but at that moment, the Band Director only saw what I was doing and immediately through me out of the band. My opponent felt in the wrong and few days later, I was asked to come back, but the next year I was thrown out for tearing the binding off of a telephone book. There were stacks of phone books that were in one of the practice rooms for a paper drive and my friends had a challenge to see who could break the binding with their hands and the Band Director came in as I was tearing a book and kicked me out.
That was the end of playing the trumpet and guitar was totally it for me. It became and still is my life. I was known as a good guitar player in my school and was asked to join a band that was already together. We practiced every Sunday and started to play some private parties and couple of parties at country clubs. Then when I was a Sophomore, I joined another band and we played at high school dances and college bars. My Dad would drive me to play and pick me up at 2AM to take me home. I'd have to get up at 7AM to go to school. One of the things that I'm hearing is that younger people don't have the opportunities like I had to play at school dances and clubs anymore because it's all DJ which is too bad for people that want to play instruments.
So, to make it short, I played in several rock bands through my teens and the last one, before going to college, was very popular which gave me a lot of experience playing in clubs. Also, we opened for some big acts a couple of times with a thousand to several thousand people in the audience. I felt at home doing this through my teens and then we broke up. I was 19 and had to figure out what I was going to do with my life. I decided to go to College and study film and music at Columbia College in Chicago. I was there for a semester and ended up transferring to Berklee College of Music in Boston. I graduated with a Bachelors Degree in Composition. It was great experience for me to be learning music. I studied how to write for a full orchestra, music history, theory and performance.
Pat Metheny was the head of a guitar ensemble class that I would do every week for 2 hous. Metheny would bring in charts of his own music and others to read. The five of us would take turns soloing. He didn't teach anything in that class, but we would just play. Before he was famous, Al Dimeola lived in my building which I had met him a couple of times through a mutual friend. Also, John Scofield was at school there as well as Jamie Glaser who has played with Jean-luc Ponty for years and played in Chick Corea's band. Jamie has played on one of my pieces that I've recorded for my new album. Recently, he's joined The Anderson Ponty Band which is Jean-Luc Ponty's Band and Jon Anderson the singer of the band Yes. By the time I had finished at Berklee, I had a complete understanding about music and it's origins which gave me the confidence to continue in a musical direction.
(HWR) How did you get introduced to jazz music?
(TP) When I was 9, I saw the movie "The Gene Krupa Story" and started to buy all of the Gene Krupa Big Band albums that I could find and would listen to them a lot. That was my introduction to Jazz.
When I was 15 or 16, I saw Charles Loyd play on TV. Keith Jarett, Jack Dejohnette and Ron McClure were in his band. I liked the kind of jazz that they were playing and listened to them a lot. I didn't understand what they were doing, but I liked it. I was a Rock and Blues player. Berklee was a big influence as far as Jazz, but the great composers of orchestral music that I had studied and the writing techniques that I had learned influenced me in other areas as well.
The birth of "Fusion" was happening at that time and that's where I found my identity. The monophonic synthesizer was fairly new then and this was virgin territory. It was all new and exciting with the union of Rock and Jazz.
(HWR) Have you performed on any records before starting your own imprint Deep Water Records?
(TP) I played on a couple of records as a studio guitarist. I can't remember their names, but one was Croatian music, another was Country and another was a Yugoslavian rock singer.
(HWR) Tell us more about how and why Deep Water Records came into being.
(TP) Yes, that's what I decided after circumstances led me to make that decision.
When I had recorded for the Yugoslavian rock singer, the owner of the studio gave be 8 hrs. of recording time in lieu of money for the session work. That's when I started working on "Deep Water". Then I started to put my own money up to finish the album which took a year and a half to record.
When it came to mix down, the owner sent me to a studio in Cleveland because his studio had enough DBX units that could handle a 16 Track recording. The owner was the engineer for The Cleveland Orchestra and he would record all of their performances to be aired on the BBC. He liked what I was doing and knew someone that was and still is well known in the business at one of the major labels, but nothing came of it. I wasn't doing something commercial so I decided to press it up and send it out to some radio stations.
Back in those days there were a lot of jazz programs that were on college and commercial radio stations. I had done a couple of interviews on the radio. In Ohio at Kent State University which their station covered several states, one in St. Louis which covered twice that area and at a local station from where I was living in the midwest. The host of that show told me about "Jazz Times Magazine" which had listings of playlists from radio stations. I started to send copies to the stations and things started like a chain reaction. The stations would send back playlists and the album was making a lot of Top Ten lists. I found out about a company that would send you a list of radio stations and there where about 1,500 stations on the list which also indicated what type of music the station aired. I started to send it out to hundreds of stations which I think was about 800 along with the playlists that "Deep Water" had made from other radio stations included in the mailer and I started getting airplay all over the United States and in Canada. It was listed in Billboard Magazine as a new release and I received a call from Guitar Player Magazine asking to send a copy for review. It was a great review and that was included when sending out copies to the stations. So, I was getting this exposure, but I didn't have distribution. I started to find distributors and was only able to find a few regional distributors that handled a tri-state area or less to take it, but I couldn't get national distribution because of what appeared to be the nature of the business. I had a record store chain that took it on locally out of one store and so I worked it out to be distributed by their warehouse to their other locations in other states, but I got a call from the manager of the outlet that was a teenage acquaintance. He had it pulled claiming that it was too much paper work which was a lesson in human nature.
So, the dilemma was that the album was getting this exposure and hardly any distribution. I had learned that your album would be good for about 3 months of airplay and that's about it.
I started to work on "Every Moment" which took another year and half and it had the same success on airplay and the same issues with distribution. Before I pressed it, a friend of mine acted as a representative and took "Every Moment" to New York to several known jazz labels. The A&R man of one well known label was very interested in the album because he felt it was unique, but the word came back that they wanted to stick with artists that had been around for some time.
Before, "Every Moment" I made a single "From The Heart" and sent it out to almost 1,000 radio stations. When I was mixing " Every Moment" at the studio, there was a Christmas Party after my session, someone told me that they had heard "From The Heart" on the radio in Nashville. I received a call from a representative saying that a promo man in Nashville had a meeting and said to try and find me to get behind the single, but it required money and didn't feel that it was a sincere offer.
After I had finished Berklee, I came back to the midwest and started playing with my own band playing Jazz Fusion. I decided to move to LA and lived there for about a year before giving up and moving back to the midwest. I decided that I needed to come back to California and meet people in the business. My girlfriend and I broken up so I had no reason to stay and moved back to Los Angeles and have been here ever since.That's when I started to work on " Born With a Desire" which took another year and a half. Polyphonic synth was fairly new and drum computers were just coming out. I bought a Tascam 8 track, mixer and mics and I was in " Heaven". I had unlimited studio time. When I had made the first two albums, we had to get things in two takes because of the cost for the studio,
I bought a Korg Poly-61 and started being creative with the synth and the drum computer. The drum computer was limited to what a real drummer could do at that time, but it was a novelty. No computer can replace a real drummer. I pressed up " Born With a Desire" and sent it out to stations in the U.S., Canada and Europe. I bought a directory that had listings of Jazz stations, clubs, distributors, publications, etc. and sent my previous albums too.
(HWR) "Born With a Desire" seems to have more a sort of composition as a base, with less organic playing and improvisation than on your two previous records. What picture you had in mind while creating these new sounds?
(TP) I didn't have anything particular in mind. I was excited about what I could do with drums, bass, keyboards and guitar. There wasn't anyone that was doing anything with an extensive use of composition in that context and I was anxious to see what I could do with it. I loved the idea of having the synth play bass lines because of the variation on the timbre that could be created with the heavy deep sound and register it could produce. The various timbres that the polyphonic synth could offer led to the direction of the music too. Polyphonic synthesizer had only been out for a short time. When I recorded "Deep Water" and "Every Moment" it was the minimoog that was used and for more than one pitch to be used for voicings, they had to be recorded one track at a time.
(HWR) Thinking back in time the style and context of "Born With a Desire" is difficult to classify. It has got specific harmonic elements which recall to fusion but the fact of using just a few sounds would rather fit with what was happening in funk at the time.
(TP) This was definitely a compositional album. I think a better term would be 20th century electric music rather than Fusion. In my opinion, Fusion would involve more solo sections from different instruments. In regard to Funk, I didn't decide to create a Funk groove because it was popular, it just turned into it as I was creating the music. The Funk on the album came because of what limited the use with the bass drum, snare, high-hat, ride and crash cymbals. I didn't want to keep a repetitive idea going on with the drums for too long. I tried different grooves and tempos on the drum computer as options to start creating pieces. To program fills took a long time. For example, on "True To Yourself" the opening drum fill took a long time to program. While I was still working on the music, Drumtracks came out with some new instruments that you could install into the machine and I purchased congas. You had to open the computer and install the microprocessor to have it work. It helped to make some embellishment of the grooves without a lot going on with the drums. I thought after the album was out that I should record the entire album with a real drummer playing more fills with the toms and cymbals, but that was just a thought.
(HWR) Which equipment did you use and how did you structure the composition process?
(TP) Korg Poly 61 synth, Sequential Circuits Drumtracks Drum Machine, MXR stereo chorus, Gibson Les Paul Standard, Gibson 335TD. Tascam 38 - Analog 8 Track 1/2" Tape, Reel-to-Reel with DBX noise reduction, Fostex spring reverb and Fostex stereo compressor and a Teac 2 track reel to reel 1/4 inch tape for mixdown. Also, Yamaha 8 channel recording mixer.
A piece would mainly start with a groove that I would have in mind for the drums. Other times it would be a progression that I had worked on with the synth and then I would have an idea of what I would do with the drums and the tempo. At that point, I had an idea of how I would structure the form of the piece. Sometimes I wouldn't have an idea of what the form would be and would create and record parts to see where it would go which was the fun part because I wasn't trying to make a commercial pop album. It would develop into whatever and where it was going. Since I studied composition, I was aware of the different types of forms used by the great masters.
There are a couple of compositions on BWAD that have a form called a Fantasy which has musical sections that never repeat through the entire piece. After, I would work on the synth bass lines then I would work on the melody and then decide on what kind of a solo that I wanted with guitar or synth. Additional synth parts would be added to embellish the melodies and solos. I liked doubling the melody with guitar and synth in unison to fatten-up the sound.
(HWR) It appears that the record has cult status over the years in part because of creating it alone with the technology that was being introduced at that time. The limitation of producing rhythms just with a drum computer led to a unique result. Which were the benefits of this artistic decision?
(TP) I guess that in regard to the limitations of the drum computer, it gave the music its charm. Advantage wise, I had complete control of what was laid down. When you have other players you have to rely on what they have to offer on a take. I could take my time and spend a year and a half to work on recording and mixdown. The drum computer had even volume levels without mic problems.
(HWR) What has happened after "Born With a Desire"?
(TP) I worked on more material which eventually became music for "Esoteric". Patrick Moraz and Krys Mach where guest artists on the album. I had to deal with life situations that people eventually have as they go along with money and family. Failing health of a parent, breakup with a girlfriend, etc.. Music was what held me together with optimism through life challenges. It still holds me together and I'm happy that I have music to keep me looking forward to the next thing.
I didn't record. During that time, I worked on more material which eventually became music for "Esoteric". Patrick Moraz and Krys Mach were guest artists on the album. If you mean how I felt about what was going on with music in general, I felt that music in popular settings was becoming more watered - down and formulated. Nothing fresh, just the same thing with different names.
Marco Bosco was part of an extraordinarily energetic scene in São Paulo, contributing to the beginning of the Brazilian independent music movement with his band Grupo Acaru and later with his two solo albums "Metalmadeira" and "Fragmentos da Casa". With his percussion he created both images and aural environments.
(HWR) Did you feel determined to become a musician at a young age? What were the circumstances that led to the development of this determination?
(MB) Being a musician and living as a musician are things you are not aware of until the day you find yourself playing and thinking about music more than anything else. It is the moment when you make music become your work, business and survival. My relatives on my mother's side were always surrounded by music, starting with my grandfather.
(HWR) Did you have access to much foreign music, or did all your inspiration come from your roots and contemporary Brazilian music?
(MB) I grew up listening to my mother, aunts and uncles singing. One of my aunts traveled around the world as a renowned flamenco dancer and lived in Europe for many years. She brought records by Billie Holliday and others back home. Besides this, flamenco guitarists sometimes rehearsed at my place. I was crazy about Jackson do Pandeiro, who sang the theme song of the soccer World Cup in 1962. I was growing up among this mixture of things and sounds, but when I encountered The Beatles that changed everything for me. Then when Pink Floyd came along everything seemed clearer: I realized that percussion can not only create a rhythm, but also compose images and environment. I followed this path and then fell into the electronic world. This was only a result of the musical experience that I was exposed to. I also started to play in clubs, at balls and even as a sideman for popular artists. In this way there was no return, I found myself living the music.
(HWR) What is your usual setup of instruments for your performance on stage? Is there any percussion that should never be missing?
(MB) Of course some instruments have historically been incorporated into some music pieces and are certainly obligatory for me. In my complete set: Super-Quinto, Quinto, Djembe and Bongos, Percussion Rack with Blocks and Cowbells, Cymbal Ride 20’, Cymbal Effects 16”, 12 "and 10" Splash Cymbals and a Percussion Table. Most of the time when I travel it happens that I just take the personal instruments with me, and so I have my percussion case in which I carry my toys and sounds.
(HWR) Looking at the track list of the record "Metalmadeira", a clear structure appears in terms of a separation of the tracks into two groups. What was your concept behind this?
(MB) In Portuguese the words metal and wood written together as a single word (Metalmadeira) embody the word "soul". The conception seems simple: I split the vinyl sides to the Metal side, with metal instruments and sounds that seemed to refer to the sounds of wood and on the other side the same thing with Madeira, including the illustration of Elifas Adreatto with a metal nail piercing and blood on the wood.
(HWR) How come you also added some additional titles after them?
(MB) The main reason was that I put names and numbers to specify the songs and sides of the vinyl: Metal I, Metal II, Madeira III, etc. By the time I finished the cover for the manufacturing process of the vinyl, I felt the titles very cold and warmed up the songs by adding the subtitles with some sense of that specific moment.
(HWR) Is there a way to describe musically the three years between "Metalmadeira" and "Fragmentos Da Casa"? Were there other projects you worked on, did you develop a new sound?
(MB) The main difference between these two projects was caused by a very specific change of technology in music, with innovations such as polyphonic keyboards, Midi systems, sequencers and the first electronic drum machines. The tools changed a lot within the 3 years that separated the albums. In that period of time I went through several experiences in music and its profession. At the same time I worked with some pop artists. I particularly remember a trip I took with the Grupa Acaru in 1980. For 4 months they recorded a live album in Tokyo. That opened new professional possibilities for me and the chance to get in touch with equipment that was still unknown in Brazil.
In the album "Metalmadeira" I used barely electronic equipment, but it was the first time that the Emulator was recorded in Brazil, which is the first synthesizer with a complete polyphonic keyboard and the father of samplers. In the album "Fragmentos da Casa" it was the first try out and start of my love for electronic and programmable equipment. The fascination for the innovative world of the brand new midi system. It was a great pleasure for me to listen to several instruments and things that I had previously imagined and were only possible in the recording studio, and that could suddenly be realised at home. Especially in live presentations it became possible to show a lot more sounds and to use the pre-recorded tapes as well.
At that time, we worked and played in various directions and it was inevitable that we would work with great artists of the Brazilian music scene, as I was involved in a lot of recordings of albums and commercials for radio and TV. For me that was an intense period in my musical and professional life.
(HWR) "Fragmentos Da Casa" ranges from more experimental to proper dancefloor tracks. How did tracks like Quarto and Sala arise?
(MB) A new world of electronic devices and the possibility to use the programmable drum machine in the way I used to imagine the beats and rhythms before arose. Actually for this project I made all the songs first and added then the title of the songs and album afterwards. The idea of using the house as a theme was because I did most of the programming at home. Using the word house in the title was the natural consequence for me.
(HWR) Was there a particular mood (also related to the time itself) that surrounded the work on "Fragmentos Da Casa"? Which inspirations and experiences were melted together in this record?
(MB) The fact that I could program a lot of things by myself led me to work alone and to think in a different way. 32 years ago we never had the chance to record and work in this way. At that time I started to spend days and nights just by myself, discovering things with the equipment and exploring many new possibilities at home. When I returned to the studio I had a clearer idea of what would be and how it would sound.
(HWR) Which artists from the Brazilian music scene did you work with during that period of time? We also saw you collaborated with André Geraissati and Egberto Gismonti.
(MB) It was a very energetic time and São Paulo was set alight with a creative fire by the independent music movement and the Lira Paulistana Theatre, the place where the movement became strong and a lot of great names appeared: Grupo Um, Grupo D’alma, Arrigo Barnabé, Grupo Pau Brazil, the great Itamar Assumpção, Grupo Acaru and some others. But besides the movement we needed to make a living by working with a lot of Brazilian artists and pop stars. I worked with RPM, Belchior, Sá & Guarabyra, Raul de Souza and for a lot of recordings. André Geraissati was about to leave Grupo D’Alma, and decided to record a solo album. He invited me and we went to Rio de Janeiro at Gismonti’s studio where we started to record and he played the cello. This became the first album released by Carmo Records, Gismonti’s label, which released several successful albums including mine.
(HWR) In which way did the political situation in Brazil affect the music you composed?
(MB) In reality the problems appearing at that time were a reflection of the preceding years. The dictatorship concentrated on making academic education weak and poor to maintain control and that resulted in problems with our youth two generations later: sons of the sons of the dictatorship. The popular music in Brazil now is terrible, the radios, the media and the recording companies that still have some artists are doing nothing good for Brazilian culture. I can say that the best Brazilian music is not in Brazil anymore. What you and I are doing now is the real proof of this.
(HWR) How would you describe life as an artist in Brazil, in the 80s?
(MB) In a way, even with the dictatorship in full force, it was a cultural and effervescent moment. Having traveled with Grupo Acaru and having recorded our first album live and outside Brazil, we had a great privilege, especially in being able to incorporate so much new technology. That allowed us so many chances to work and travel through a new world of possibilities and the power and courage of youth. We were hungry to be able to do, to express ourselves, to play, to live from music, to record in this totally energised state. We lived that moment very intensely, doing solo work and playing and recording with everyone. The audience of the time had a cultural preparation and a much higher level of interest.
(HWR) How do you explain to yourself your continued musical relevance through to the present day?
(MB) We do not think about it much, just doing things that music calls us to do. Of course many things have changed in the music scene, also with my paths through music; time changes everything. Some things for the better, others for the worse, but we just continue to shape things based on our experiences. But the best thing is the freedom of expression that grows with our body of work and age. I think sometimes it works the other way around: the musical scene looks to us in its changes of behavior from time to time.
(HWR) Currently there are some new projects and touring plans in the pipeline. Please tell us more about them.
(MB) Last year I released the album "Online" with my partner Paulo Calasans. Together with Balaio Quartet we did a very good tour in China, Hong Kong and some European countries. Balaio also includes Randy Brecker, this show is based on the album Randy in Brazil which won a Grammy in 2009 but had never been performed live. This year, we will return to China for a few more shows with Randy Brecker and we will record the first Balaio album, which has been on the road since 2009, but which we never really recorded. Then we will go to Europe for some more concerts with the Italian singer Chiara Pancaldi and another new project with the Dutch pop artist Monique Klemann and the Chinese jazz singer Coco Zhao.
Minas’ longevity speaks for itself. Performing in a variety of formats, their professionalism and versatility, from the duo to ensemble, to orchestra and big band, has placed Minas in high demand. All started from a school trip to the beach and led to a long collaboration as partners and musicians between Patricia King Haddad and Orlando Haddad, lasting already for about four decades. We had a chat with Orlando about their private label Blueazul and its fantastic output "Num Dia Azul".
(HWR) Orlando and Patricia, how did you encounter?
(OH) I came from Brazil in 1974 to attend the University of North Carolina School of the Arts. Patricia came from Pennsylvania to also attend the same school. We shared a few classes during our first year but didn’t know each other very well. Towards the end of the spring semester, the school took a trip to the beach. Someone passed me a guitar and I played a few rock songs while no one listened. Then a girl approached me and asked if I was Brazilian. I said yes, and she asked if I could play a Brazilian song. I didn’t know many, but played through Corcovado, by Jobim. Back at school, the same girl approached me again. She said that she had written a bossa nova song and asked if I could write Portuguese lyrics for it. I agreed. We got together and wrote "Num Dia Azul". That was the beginning of a friendship, which turned into a relationship, and a partnership which has lasted over 4 decades, yielding two children, and 7 albums.
(HWR) Blueazul Records was the only record label you released on - but therefore continuously. Can you unveil for us the mystery behind Blueazul records?
(OH) Blueazul is our private and exclusive label. We coined the name from two words “Blue” and “Azul”, which mean the color blue in English and in Portuguese. We also named our third album “Blue Azul”. In that album we explain the meaning of the name. In English, besides a color, the word blue expresses a sentiment, also expressed in Blues music. The sentiment is dark and somber, sad and nostalgic. In Brazil, when one says “tudo azul”, it expresses the opposite- all is well, bright, happy, as in blue skies, clear for sailing and adventure. Together the two words express dual polarities, sad and happy, north and south, male and female, yin and yang.
(HWR) Did it function as an exclusive platform for Minas?
(HWR) How was the policy for independent record labels to that time?
(OH) I’ll answer your question after I give a little more history. During our junior year at UNCSA Patricia and I worked up a repertoire of Brazilian songs and began doing gigs around the area of North Carolina we lived. We then decided to take a trip to Brazil. It was Patricia’s first trip there. We spent 3 months, the summer in the southern hemisphere, December –February, traveling, hearing music, meeting friends and enjoying family. We spent time in Rio, Salvador (Bahia), and Minas Gerais. We took an active part in Carnaval as we both participated as performers in the “Bateria”, the percussion section of a samba school. It was a great experience. We documented our experience in the form of photographs, Super 8 films, audio recording, as well as transcriptions of samba rhythms. We brought this material back to the USA and since we had to do a senior project for graduation, we created a multi-media presentation about Carnaval, which fulfilled one of the requirements for graduation. It was the basis of so much more. Later I became a professor of Samba Percussion and Brazilian Jazz at Philadelphia’s University of the Arts, a position which I held for 10 years, but also presented workshops and lectures in various higher learning institutions, such as The University of Pennsylvania, Brown University, Temple Univ., Ohio State, to name a few, and also in hundreds of secondary schools in the form of a program we named “Brazilian Adventure”.
(HWR) The album "Num Dia Azul" convinces because of its warm sounds and true quality of musicians involved! Especially the title track catches us. Can you tell us the story behind the track, an anecdote of its production process?
(OH) I already mentioned how Patricia and I wrote the song “Num Dia Azul”. Giving sequence to the story, after our Brazilian experience we returned to the US to finish our degrees. We also brought along another Brazilian musician who played with me in my high school days. While still attending school we began performing around North Carolina and named our band Minas, after my home state of Minas Gerais. That was in 1978, so it’ll soon be 40 years. After graduation we remained in North Carolina and performed all over the area and adjacent states of Virginia and South Carolina, but going as far as Tennessee and Pennsylvania. The band had many different players who we hired for specific gigs. When we finally decided to move away from the area, having put together much music in many configurations with different and some excellent musicians, we decided to go in the studio and make a record. That’s how the album "Num Dia Azul" came to be. This time also coincided with the birth of our daughter Nicole.
We moved away from NC, stayed 6 months in Pennsylvania visiting Patricia’s family and showing off our baby, and decided to go back to Brazil. After a short stay in Minas with my family we settled in Rio de Janeiro, where we lived and performed for the next two years. At that time Brazil had just recently stepped out of a military regime and the arts were not well funded. Gigs did not pay much, the economy was not very stable, and we decided to return to the United States. But before we left we met composer and pianist Antonio Adolfo, who was the first musician in Brazil to make an independent record. We visited him at his apartment in the neighborhood of Jardim Botânico, played him our recording, and he passed the knowhow about making an independent record. We then ordered the album at Rio’s Polygram Records where we pressed 1,000 vinyl records. We picked up our order, did 2 record release concerts, one in my hometown of Lavras, the other in the capital of Minas, Belo Horizonte. Around that time I would leave our house with 10 records in the morning, stand outside a record store or hip place such as a health food store, and offer the album to passersby. We also sold small amounts to record stores in major centers such as São Paulo, Rio and Belo Horizonte. That time went quickly and we soon were in the plane back to America. Since we had a 3-year old child, big cities like New York or Los Angeles, big centers for music, did not appeal to us. We came to Philadelphia where we’ve live for 32 years and raised our two children. Our son Jordan was born in 1988.
(HWR) What made you decide to exactly now, in 2016, repress the album?
(OH) From the 1,000 records we made, we sold 400 in Brazil, brought 100 albums with us to Philadelphia, and left 500 stored in my mother’s house in Brazil. There was a fire in her home and the records we lost. In Philly we pressed an edition of 500 cassettes, then moved on to new projects. Over the years we received calls and emails from all over the world from fans and collectors looking to buy an original copy of the vinyl "Num Dia Azul". We also received a request from Germany’s label Jazzanova to license one the of the tracks from the album, “Samba Walk”. It was included in the collection “Paz e Futebol”. (Jazzanova just released a followup recording “Paz e Futebol 2”, which includes another song from "Num Dia Azul", a song my bother and I wrote in the 1970s in Rio, “Calma Mulher”). The calls and emails continued to come. We then thought it was time to repress and release another edition. One of our associates, Brendan McGeehan, encouraged us to re-release the album. He was instrumental in the audio recovering process – the tapes had to be baked in the oven for several hours and then transferred to digital. Brendan also remixed the CD. The vinyl reissue is exactly the same as the original, or may I say, even better, since the pressing plant which we used was more of a boutique operation, as opposed to the corporate plant in Brazil, which pressed thousands; and the paper used for the cover of the new edition was of a better stock. The CD, besides being remixed and remastered, contains 2 bonus tracks. We had forgotten about these tracks but they appeared when we transferred the master tapes to digital. It was Brendan’s idea also to press a limited edition of 100 copies of "Num Dia Azul" on transparent blue vinyl.
(HWR) We've heard that the release of the repress was accompanied by a concert in Philadelphia that involved many musicians. Who participated and what was the concept behind?
(OH) The Philadelphia re-release concert took place last year, 2015, in November, at one of our favorite venues, World Café Live. We assembled a quintet which included the original drummer, David Licht, who now lives in New York and was one of the founding members of the Klezmer band The Klezmetics. We raised the money for the re-release via the platform Kickstarter.
(HWR) In which way you found Philadelphia as an inspiring place to come to grips with latin, jazz and bossanvoa? (As it is basically not the place of the origin of these genres).
(OH) Philadelphia has been a great place for us. When we arrived in 1984 the World Music movement was just getting started, and Minas had many requests to perform for all kinds of situations. Over the years we’ve built our own market and public. While raising our kids both Patricia and I took advantage of the excellent learning institutions based here, earning 3 masters degrees between us. We also had access to great high-quality recording studios, which inspired us to make 6 more recordings. We like Philly because it’s a cosmopolitan center for arts, culture, finance, history, education, etc. It’s a beautiful city with great restaurants, museums, performance halls, universities. It is well situated between New York and Washigton DC, and has a major international airport. The city embraced us and provided a platform for us to grow. It has a great music scene, and excellent musicians who play classical, jazz, rock, Latin, folk, you name it. Since we arrived here Philadelphia has only gotten better and better. We have now so many roots, friends and business associates here. It’s the longest we’ve lived anywhere.
The genius Italian singer and guitarist Enzo Carella, created in complicity with poet Pasquale Panella songs that are marked by a profound approach and light sense of life. There is no chance to not fall in love with his tracks from A to Z.
(HWR) We heard that with 13 years you received from your parents your first guitar as a gift. Did you feel chosen to play the guitar or do you think if it would have been a bass or drums things would have been different?
(EC) I have been asking my parents for a long period a guitar as a gift because I was really in love with that instrument. In the 70s, when I started listening music, the guitar was a new instrument. It was the most modern thing that I could play, the "coolest" thing. I also liked to play bongos and keys, but the guitar was the instrument that I was born for.
(HWR) Tell us more about your childhood, which kind of guy have you been as a teenager?
(EC) At school I was the spokesman of my class. If my friends had to ask something to professors it was me speaking with them. I was a determined kid that liked to talk and smile. Growing up I wanted my hair longer and longer. In that period it meant to be a rebellious boy, an anti-conformist. I loved concerts and pop festivals and dancing parties with friends and, of course, with pretty girls. Also regarding music, I was always in the mood of introducing my new discoveries to friends. My youth coincided with the period of time where private/independent radio stations arised. I started listening American and English music which I have never heard before, and got completely fascinated from it. These discoveries I wanted to show to all of my classmates.
(HWR) When did you start officially your career as a musician?
(EC) At the age of 13, I took a few guitar lessons and I learned easy chords. Then I kept rehearsing by analyzing songs that I liked and repeating leads and chord progressions a lot. At the age of 16 I played in my first band; we were three members: bass guitar, drums and me, and we went around playing at parties and in small clubs, mainly hard rock and blues music. This was more a passion thing, than a real work. I actually never had the idea of getting into the music business, because I personally didn't like the idea of following the rules of the big business.
My way into this business happened a bit randomly. The music field was the right one to invest on for managers and producers. There was much money involved and I got introduced to Alfonso Bettini, a good manager and person. He pushed me in order to undertake a music career.
(HWR) The contribution of Pasquale Panella to your songs is extraordinary. The lyrics and music melt perfectly together. How did your collaboration come into being?
(EC) Alfonso Bettini was the one who introduced me to Pasquale Panella. He had amongst his protégée Panella, so he wanted to ask him to write lyrics for me. I used to write songs in fake English, a language that sounded like English but mostly with wrong words. Panella definitely was a good choice to complete my compositions. He had its own way of writing and completely fascinated me with his lyrics. I loved Panella's lyrics because of his personal style. I never saw someone writing songs like he did.
(HWR) There is one track called "Contatto", from the album Sfinge (1981) that especially catches us. Which is the story and working process behind the track?
(EC) All started from a reggae-style guitar rhythm, which is actually the one that leads the song. The musicians that were in studio with me liked the idea and followed it without letting it loose the essence. In other songs from the album "Singe", the musicians revisited some of my initial ideas and re-interpreted them in a slightly different way.
(HWR) For this LP you worked with musicians from Naples, like Elio D'anna(Osanna). Did you notice any difference between their approach in studio and the one from the musicians you worked with previously?
(EC) In my two first LPs, "Vocazione" and "Barbara" all the songs came out from jam sessions. We just went in the studio and played improvisation the for the whole time. In my third LP, "Sfinge", we used real arrangements. I DONT UNDERSTAND THIS STORY : a funny thing maybe it was that the sax player and boss of the group has lived many years in usa and he was a follower of an indian guru,the same of santana and we called him “the priest”....he was always saying to me that i had the ligth (for music...)that was in general a hot band with a touch of mediterranean flavour and sound.
(HWR) Which artist designed the cover for "Sfinge"? Was he a friend of yours?
(EC) He was a guy that RCA proposed, I didn't know him but it was anyway a nice cover. I also like to draw so I took care of the artwork of another album: "Se Non Cantassi Sarei Nessuno" which was released more recently, in 1995.
(HWR) Shortly after the release of this record you suddenly disappeared from the music scene, despite the fact that superstars like Lucio Battisti said that you are the only singer that really interests. How come?
(EC) My records used to not sell as much as the label wanted and expected, so I constantly had the request of making more commercial music, and to change my appearance to something that the label thought was the right choice; starting from shortening my hair.
I always wanted to express myself spontaneously so I never accepted to deal with these things.
(HWR) In which way would you describe the relation with Lucio Battisti? You both seem to respect each other quite a lot, but never met in person.
(EC) We liked each other but we never met. I would have liked so much to meet him. Some people say that if he was still alive we would have ended up working together nowadays. Who knows.
(HWR) Many music fans from our generation are falling in love with your albums from the 70s/80s. This makes us understand that your music was probably too much ahead of times back then, but very actual nowadays. Have you ever thought of going back in studio with musicians you collaborated with back in those days?
(EC) Yes it is true, many people told me I released music too early. It seems like nowadays people like my music more than people from the 70s and 80s. My dream would be to come back in a studio with my old musicians, but now that people don't buy records like before, it would be an impossible dream because those musicians would like to be paid and there is no money around, but, who knows? Maybe in the next future!
Mike Collins / SunPalace
In 1983, the creative partnership between two British musicians, guitarist Mike Collins and keyboard player Keith O'Connell, collectively known as "SunPalace", led to the release of a true club music classic called "Rude Movements". Licensed to Passion Records, it eventually sold around 10,000 copies on vinyl and was played by countless DJs including David Mancuso, Daniele Baldelli and Larry Levan - to name just a few - helping it to become a disco/jazz-funk 'cult' hit. Mike Collins answers questions here about the genesis of this project, its forthcoming release, and on his career in general, from his work as a Music Technology Specialist at Yamaha's London R & D Studio to his Film work with Ryuichi Sakamoto and others.
(HWR) How did you and Keith O'Connell first meet and what made SunPalace happen?
(MC) I first met Keith O'Connell at The Imperial Ballroom in Nelson, Lancashire, early in 1969 when he was playing Hammond organ with Geno Washington and The Ram Jam Band - a very successful London-based soul group at that time. I had previously seen Keith playing a Farfisa Organ with local band The Raging Storms in Burnley in 1965 and 1966 and had always loved his keyboard playing. In 1967 Keith joined The Glass Menagerie and moved to London. In 1968 he left this band and joined Geno Washington and the Ram Jam Band, staying until this band's demise in the Autumn of 1969. In the early 70's Keith returned to Burnley for a few years and he played keyboards with my band during that period. Later he moved back to London, then to Rugby, and we kept in touch as friends. When I decided to move to London in 1979, I visited Keith in Rugby and we started writing music together and recorded a couple of tracks onto my TEAC tape recorder. About 6 months later, Keith decided he would like to move back to London and we agreed to share a flat together so that we could practice and rehearse music together.
Toward the end of 1980, we were rehearsing and jamming regularly with two musicians from a popular funk band called Light of the World, and we also made our first demo together - "It's In The Music" which featured Keith singing a vocal chorus and "Raw Movements" which I subsequently came up with as the title for the purely instrumental version of this. We decided to form a duo called 'Rude Note' and to write and produce music together and for other singers and bands. Our first production opportunities came via EMI records in 1981 and we also recorded our first single as a duo, retitling the mixes as "Rude Movements" and "Winning". Shortly after this, our first co-production, "Ride The Love Train" by Light of the World was released on EMI Records in 1981 and this proved popular enough to sell 40,000 copies and reach number 40 in the UK Pop Charts in November 1981. Unfortunately, we could not find a record label to release the SunPalace material in 1981, but I went out to MIDEM in Cannes in January 1983 and met A & R person Ann Plaxton from Passion Records who eventually re-named our duo as 'SunPalace' and released the record in November 1983.
(HWR) You mentioned that you bought the Roland CR78 - the first programmable analogue rhythm machine - when this first appeared. In what way did it play a role on the SunPalace record "Winning"/"Rude Movements" that you released in 1983?
(MC) From the mid-70's onwards, I had been using a Roland TR77 drum-machine to play along with when there was no drummer available and had used this on my first recordings with Keith in Rugby and on our rehearsals and writing sessions in London in 1979 and 1980. Either late in 1980 or early in 1981, I part-exchanged the TR77 for the more advanced Roland CR78 - the first commercially-available drum-machine that would allow users to program and store their own drum patterns. Immediately, we could see the advantages of being able to devise our own drum patterns and, as we did not have a regular drummer at that time, and liking the sounds of the CR78 anyway, we decided to record using this.
(HWR) What other equipment was involved in the production?
(MC) We used a Fender Rhodes electric piano, a Fender Stratocaster guitar, a Prophet 10 and a Prophet 5 synthesiser on "Rude Movements". On "Winning" we added a pedal harp played by session musician Fiona Hibbert, and I played some notes on my Fender Precision bass guitar while Keith added an overdub on the Wave PPG synthesiser.
(HWR) Can you describe one of your typical recording sessions?
(MC) We always felt very much under pressure in Utopia Studios while we were recording these tracks: the studio charges were very costly, the recording engineers were not always too friendly or supportive, and I was totally inexperienced as far as professional studio recordings were concerned. Thankfully, Keith O'Connell was a lot more studio-wise than me at that time, and his much more extensive studio experience carried us through. Keith confidently recorded the basic Fender Rhodes part, playing through without stopping for 6 or 7 minutes. Then he added the Prophet synthesiser parts. I overdubbed the picking guitar parts at our next session, with the guitar DI'ed through the Neve mixing desk, and 'dropping in' to record onto the Studer A800 24-track tape recorder several times along the way, as I was nervously making timing mistakes - some of which can still be heard on the recording! When it came to mixing, Keith played a leading role, together with the studio engineer, Peter Walsh, while I assisted, throwing in a few suggestions and moving a few faders here and there. "Rude Movements" was a manual mix while many of the "Winning" mixes used the Neve 'Flying Faders' console automation.
(HWR) How did the title "Rude Movements" come up?
(MC) This was the title that I came up with for my favourite 'rough' mix of the track. Previously, I had come up with the idea of calling our duo 'Rude Note' - because every time Keith heard a gratifying bluesy guitar or synthesiser note, he would shout out "Hey, that's a really RUDE note!"
I was trying to think of a title that would capture people's imagination, and decided that "Rude Movements" - which referred to the bluesy/jazzy synthesiser and guitar notes and the way these moved around in this music - would do the trick!
(HWR) What gave you the confidence to invest such a large amount of money to produce that record?
(MC) We were just very optimistic that we were going to be successful with our music productions, especially as we were doing various demos for EMI and especially in view of the fact that EMI were showing great interest in releasing our other production from that period - "Ride The Love Train." With hindsight, this was just unbelievable naivety on our parts.
(HWR) The record is nowadays featured in many legendary compilations, like the Loft classics, and has a high influential status. Could you already imagine this at the time that it was released?
(MC) Yes, I actually could and did imagine and wish that this might happen. Because I had spent the 70s working as a DJ playing dance music, I was well aware that some records which were not major pop hits could actually become 'cult' hits in the dance clubs and could continue to be played and to sell, often for very high prices, for many, many years after they were first released. I knew that it was unlikely that we would achieve success in the pop charts or via radio play with this record, but I wanted to go ahead and make it anyway, believing that even if it was not a major hit initially (and it was not, despite sales of around 10,000 in the first year) it could go on to become one of these 'cult' dance records. And I was right - it did!!!
(HWR) The way that you used drum-machines in your SunPalace recordings reminds us of the US house music that appeared in the latter half of the 1980s. Why do you think this is?
(MC) In 1980, the Roland TR808 first appeared, and realising how much more programmability this offered, I part-exchanged my CR78 for this as soon as I could find one at an affordable price in 1981. I always regretted selling both the TR77 and the CR78, which both had their own unique sounds and features! Luckily, I have managed to acquire replacements for these now! As the 80's rolled along, lots more drum-machines appeared and at first we hired machines like the Linn Drum and the E-Mu SP-12, which were prohibitively expensive to buy. Eventually Roland released the TR707 and TR727 models in 1984 and I immediately bought these - and kept the TR808 this time!
In 1984, I had started to work as a session musician and as a producer of re-recordings of chart hits for UK TV shows like Soul Train and Top of the Pops. One particularly memorable session in 1986 for Top of the Pops was with Farley Keith and Darryl Pandy (collectively known as Farley 'Jackmaster' Funk) with whom I re-recorded their UK chart hit, "Love Can't Turn Around." This was the first Chicago 'house' music hit in the UK pop charts (it reached #10 in September 1986). The band's manager asked me to produce a 'cover' version of Trussel's 1979 club favourite, "Love Injection." Farley came to my flat to work on the drum programming for this and he used my combination of TR808, TR707 and TR727, which he told me was identical to his setup at home in Chicago! Sadly, this record was never finished or released as the manager did not pay the studio bill!
You can listen to one of my rough mixes here: https://soundcloud.com/mikecollinsmusic/love-injection-reverb-mix-mike
Later, in 1987, I visited Chicago and met up with some of the leading 'house' guys, including Marshall Jefferson. I had a long chat with Marshall while we were hanging out at one of the studios and he explained that the house DJs and Producers in Chicago all loved the sophisticated disco and soul music from the 1970s, but could not afford to use the big-budget studios, musical equipment, session musicians and arrangers used at Motown or Philadelphia International, for example. So they used the cheap synthesisers and drum-machines that were starting to appear, such as the previously mentioned Roland gear and the more affordable synthesisers such as the Korg Poly-6 and Juno 60 which Keith and I were using for exactly the same reasons!
(HWR) Was there a certain chord progression you would have started to jam with usually?
(MC) Well we always tried to develop unique chord progressions, but quite often would use chords like A minor 7 or 9, D9 or 13, D Minor 9, E 7 + 9, Bb Major 7 or Major 9, and Bb/C. Sometimes we would just jam on one chord, such as A Minor 7, or a couple of chords such as C Major 7 and F Major 7.
(HWR) Can you tell us more about the MIDI sequencers, samplers, drum-machines and synthesizers that no one knew how to synchronize correctly when you were recording at Abbey Road Studios in 1986?
(MC) A defining moment in my lifetime occurred in the early part of 1986 when I was asked to produce a re-recording of the Sly Fox hit "Let's Go All The Way" for Top of the Pops in the UK. The Record label's TV Department paid for my team of top UK session musicians to go into Abbey Road Studios - arguably the best studio in the UK with the best recording engineers in the UK - to re-record the music and the band's vocals. We had spent a couple of days beforehand carefully transcribing all the musical parts and had hired all the latest synthesizers, samplers, sequencers and drum-machines that we needed, including a Roland MSQ700 MIDI sequencer, a Yamaha QX5 MIDI sequencer, a DX7 synthesiser, an Emulator II sampling keyboard, an Oberheim OB8 synthesiser and a Roland TR909 drum-machine. The various session musicians had set up the sounds and samples, and had programmed the sequencers and drum-machine before coming into the studio. We all expected that we could just connect all this equipment together using MIDI cables and everything would play back in sync. Sadly, this was not the case! The different instruments would not all play back exactly in step with each other - and nobody among this highly-trained and talented team at Abbey Road, including me, had any idea why it would not work properly! We managed to find ways to work around the problem by dealing with each instrument separately in the studio and got through the session OK - but I resolved to make it my mission to find out exactly what had happened so that I could carve out a technical niche for myself in the London studios for the future. So I signed on to a part-time course of study at City University for an MSc Degree in Music Technology to learn all about digital audio and MIDI which were the new technologies of the day, and I chose to teach myself how to write MIDI and Audio software for the Apple Mac computers that had only been launched a year or so previously.
(HWR) Besides other projects you also worked for Yamaha, can you tell us more about this experience?
(MC) Well, what better way to learn how MIDI equipment worked than to work for one of the leading manufacturers in its Research & Development department? So that's exactly what I did! In the summer of 1986, I applied for a job working at Yamaha as Senior Recording Engineer and Music Technology Specialist at their London R & D Studio, which was in the last stages of construction in Conduit Street, London W1. Yamaha paid for two of their top specialists to train me in MIDI sequencing and FM synthesiser programming, and allowed me two afternoons off each week to study at the University. This proved to be one of the busiest and most productive years of my life - living with a pile of equipment manuals as high as my waist and surrounded by all the latest high-tech MIDI and recording equipment that Yamaha was churning out at that time. For example, I was involved in choosing the final specifications for Yamaha's DMP7 digital mixing console - the first commercially-available small-format digital console - and I worked on many recordings in the studio with well-known artists, composers, and producers including Keith Emerson, Courtney Pine, George Martin, Hans Zimmer, George Benjamin, and Elton John's record Producer, Gus Dudgeon.
I spent a year with Yamaha from Autumn 1986 until Autumn 1987, then spent the next two years or so completing my MSc Degree and building up my freelance career as a MIDI Programmer. I bought a Digidesign Sound Tools system in 1989 and started offering my services as a digital audio editor. I also started writing for Sound On Sound, Melody Maker and International Musician magazines, reviewing all the latest MIDI instruments and digital audio recording equipment from 1988 onwards, so by the start of the next decade I had achieved my goal of becoming one of the most technically informed MIDI and Audio specialists in the UK.
(HWR) What happened between the 80's and today?
(MC) Throughout the 90's I worked on many commercial studio recordings, TV programmes, adverts and jingles, multimedia projects and film scores mostly as a MIDI Programmer and Consultant or as a Digital Audio Editor - occasionally as a composer, arranger or studio musician. In tandem with this I wrote prolifically for UK magazines including Studio Sound, Sound On Sound, AudioMedia, Macworld and others, and for US magazines including MIX, Electronic Musician, EQ and others.
As soon as the new generation of digital audio recording and editing tools became available, I was an early adopter, working on the Shamen’s hit “Boss Drum” album in 1992, for example, using Cubase Audio and an early version of Pro Tools in preparation for their world tour. An invitation to work with film composer Ryuichi Sakamoto as his MIDI programmer and technology guru led to screen and soundtrack album credits as a Mac Computer & Music Technology Consultant on “The Little Buddha” and “Wuthering Heights”, and to work with other film composers – most notably with David Arnold on his first major film score for “The Young Americans”, which included the hit single “Play Dead” by Bjork/David Arnold.
I used all the popular MIDI + Audio software including Digital Performer, Studio Vision, Cubase Audio and Logic, and found myself mostly working with Pro Tools by the end of the 90's, at which time I invested in a high-end Pro Tools TDM system and began to work more as a Pro Tools engineer recording real musicians instead of MIDI instruments and sequences.
In the year 2000 I wrote my first book - Pro Tools 5.1 for Music Production - which started me out on a 15-year career as a music technology author for Focal press. I built up my personal studio gear with the focus on vintage instruments, amplifiers and keyboards and found myself increasingly recording jazz and soul musicians. I also returned to songwriting and started producing my own recordings and co-producing albums for other artists, most notably Ayetoro's "Omo Obokun" album with Nigerian Afrobeat/Jazz composer Funsho Ogundipe in 2006.
In 2010, I formed a ‘live’ performance duo with French singer Aurora Colson and performed at venues around London from October 2010 until October 2011. In 2011, I set up my own record label, Rude Note Records, and released three 6-track EPs and ten singles featuring Aurora Colson on iTunes between October 2011 and April 2012. I also released a solo jazz guitar album that I produced featuring top UK jazz guitarist Jim Mullen, together with two collaborative albums - Mike Collins & Jim Mullen: “Blues, Jazz & Beyond” and “Pop, Rock & Gospel.”
Between July 2012 and March 2013, I worked on two albums with David ‘DaPaul’ Philips: recording and mixing tracks for David’s soul-jazz album ‘Soulful Spirit’; and producing an album of pop-soul songs from my own catalogue featuring David’s vocals and keyboards. DaPaul's "Soulful Spirit" album reached #3 in the UK Soul Charts in December 2013.
Between April 2013 and March 2014, I took a year out from music production to write two new books about Pro Tools 11 and all the latest audio plug-ins and virtual instruments – getting ‘up-to-speed’ with all the latest features along the way. During this period, my project studio was upgraded to the latest Pro Tools HDX hardware, the studio equipment was serviced and repaired as necessary, equipment racks upgraded, and the rooms re-organised – ready for new projects.
From the summer of 2014 through until the summer of 2015 I worked on an album titled “The Funky Boys” featuring various vocalists including Phil Ramocon and Linda Muriel. This project is ongoing and I will be returning to this in 2016. In June 2015, I started working on an exciting new project with Senegalese Griot musician Issa Mbaye, co-writing and producing the album and playing lots of guitars, and some bass, percussion, backing vocals, pedal harp and piano-accordion. By the end of December we had finished 12 tracks for the album, provisionally titled "Griot Soul". Issa has been busy coping with work injuries and family situations since January 2016, but we hope to complete and release our recordings later in 2016 when he is able to return to music.
In July 2015 I was approached by Flavia Lamprecht and Massimo Di Lena, founders of the Halfway Ritmo platform in Berlin, who encouraged me to finish off and release all my unreleased and unfinished SunPalace recordings from the 1980's. This took the best part of a year to complete, and just as I was finishing off the final mixes, with lots of useful feedback from Massimo, I got a call from Peter Adarkwah of BBE Records in London who convinced me to licence all the SunPalace material to BBE for release on vinyl and CD.
Flavia and Massimo also suggested that I should put together a new SunPalace lineup to make new recordings and do 'live' performances…
(HWR) You have now decided to re-establish the SunPalace project by expanding it to become a 4-piece band. How is this progressing and when can we expect the first rehearsals?
(MC) The original SunPalace was essentially a duo, but we did rehearse, write original material, record portastudio demos, and record three studio tracks with bass player John McKenzie and some other musicians. We also recorded four songs for radio broadcast in 1982 as 'Rude Note' at Capital Radio in London. This band featured John McKenzie on bass and Geoff Dunn on drums. I have continued to work with John from time-to-time ever since and he has become one of my closest friends! Although I lost touch with Geoff Dunn back in the 80's, our paths crossed again a couple of years ago, and we have been connected via Facebook since then. Coincidentally, Geoff rang me for a chat in December last year, just after the suggestion had come up about me re-forming SunPalace with John on bass. Geoff immediately offered to play drums, and both recommended a very talented young keyboard player called Carl Hudson who I had also been keeping my eye on ever since I had heard him play on various YouTube videos. They both mentioned this to Carl, so when I finally met up with Carl in January and played him the SunPalace material to see if he liked the musical 'vibe' he was immediately enthusiastic about the project. Later, he came over to my place to record some stuff for SunPalace before he left the UK to tour the US with Boy George & Culture Club for the summer - promising to return before the end of the year in 2016 to record more material!
(HWR) How do you feel about finally releasing these old recordings?
(MC) I think this is a wonderful thing! The idea that new audiences will have the opportunity to enjoy the music that I was making before they were even born is very gratifying to me - a vindication of my original reasons for creating these recordings! I always believed that people would appreciate this music if only they were given an opportunity to hear it!!!
(HWR) What were your intentions when you preserved all your old recordings on tape? Did you simply want to create an archive of your works or were you thinking of going back to them one day?
(MC) Well, I am a bit of a hoarder - one of my mottos is "It's better to have and not need than to need and not have!" So, naturally, I have preserved virtually all my recordings ever since I started making these. And I always kept in mind the possibility that I would finish off and release, or re-work and re-record, or develop new material from these old recordings at some point in the future: so this is exactly why I took great care to preserve them! This was always in my vision…
Specifically, in 1999 I paid for the studio recordings to be transferred to Pro Tools, and I also digitized some of the demos and unfinished material such as “Raw Movements” and “What’s The Time?” Then, in 2009, Keith O’Connell agreed to assign his shares of the music compositions and sound recording copyrights for all the old SunPalace material to me because he did not want to continue the SunPalace project himself, but gave me his full approval to continue the project with sole control of the rights to this. Around that same time, I finally clarified the rights situation with “Rude Movements” and “Winning” and got these re-registered at PRS and PPL in my name in preparation for possible re-issues.
And now – it is finally all happening!
Pre-order on: https://BBEmusic.lnk.to/rawrude
ORM were the pioneers of electronic dance music in Czechoslovakia, originally formed by Petr Dvořák and Pavel Růžička as a disco group in the late 1970's.
Alexandra Strelcova and Olin Soldan from "Little Beat Different" spoke with Pavel about their studio, political issues and the origin of the name ORM, which arised out of the story about a Viking warrior called "The Ginger Orm".
(HWR) How did ORM came into being?
(PR) Me and Petr met at high school and began to play in one of those amateur bands. We loved B.B. King and James Brown so we played them often, that was our musical beginning. This was around 1970, two years after our Soviet friends besieged Czechoslovakia, and the country was crippled by normalisation. That meant a total end to live performance of this sort of music here. Clubs were closed, regular checks were imposed as well as the so-called “set list check” through which higher authorities judged whether certain tunes could be performed. That was a catastrophe for music deemed to be too "Western", and for us that meant we simply couldn’t live off it anymore. So we ended up forming a band with our friend Kosťa Ruchadze, and went on to tour clubs in the West, Austria, Switzerland, and Germany.
There used to be an agency that would facilitate touring. Surprisingly, the Bolsheviks were quite open to that for one simple reason: musicians would bring cash back to Czechoslovakia. Well, they’d get only vouchers, which were then called bons, but still it was an immense advantage to be able to travel out of the country. Firstly, it was quite uplifting to keep in touch with Western culture, but also because it was possible to obtain new instruments and bring them back home. Don’t forget that back then it was hard to even get some proper guitar strings over here.
After some time travelling with other renowned bands and artists such as the actor and singer Josef Laufer, me and Petr decided it was time to go “freelance”, which basically meant jobless. At the beginning it was a bit wild, but since we were always very frugal with money, we managed to save up quite a bit. In a few years’ time, we could finally afford to buy our first recording studio, albeit very small and basic. And that’s how ORM was created.
(HWR) Could you tell us more about your first recordings?
(PR) We bought a four-track Tascam cassette recorder. It would record four tracks, and then mix three into a separate one, and then continue like this. So that’s how the first records were created, and even the records that were later released on the LP’s. We also did plenty of music for film, and documentaries. It was quite a primitive set up, but it worked. Stevie Wonder recorded his most successful album in the seventies on a four-track. Technically it might not have been the best available, but he was still able to make a global hit record, so we said, well... why couldn’t we try the four-track as well!
Leonardo da Vinci described it very well: music ceases to exist the very same moment it is created... and I’d always hated that. My brother was a painter, he’d paint a picture and immediately had an object he could show people. But what about music? You didn’t have many options back then, you could either try and get a record deal yourself, or you bought whatever ever you could find... and afford! So when we bought our first cassette player, and I connected my old guitar – man how we were carried away by it! All of a sudden you’re listening to a record we’d created! it was the first time we'd been able to hear our own musical expression on record.
(HWR) How was the track "Tropic" conceived?
(PR) For this song, we were using sampler Emulator II+ with pre-installed chips made from military equipment. There was embargo on such materials here in Czechoslovakia so we had to find a way to get it. Our friend Kolja Kohout who owned a music shop in London helped us obtain them.
Firstly, we used to borrow the cassette player from other people but then, we found a second-hand one in the UK through an advertisement. Our friend John Newton was so kind and promised to buy it for us, We couldn’t travel at that time so I sent my wife (of Pavel Růžička) to get it from him as she had a sister in France. Instead of going to France she headed to the UK instead and bought the 8 track 1 inch tape recorder Brenell. And then it was really hard to bring it over as all countries wanted to impose duty on it so we had to send it par avion. But it finally arrived and luckily, our friend at the border provided a really low price estimation on it – well it was quite true as it was an older device that wasn’t used at all here, so anything that went wrong, we wouldn’t have a way to repair it.
It was recorded gradually. We used the DIY drumming machine created by our friend ing. Petr Gadzuk, then we mixed the Prophet 5 into it - initially came the crackling, then the Mini Moog. In the end we added the vocals, Hanka Buštíková – one half of the Kamélie duo. It was created as an individual instrumental piece, and wasn’t even supposed to be featured on the album!
We recorded eight tracks at first, then mixed it into a DAT cassette, put this back to one stereo channel, then did drums on the second, and the rest were used for other instruments.
We did have Prophet but it would have been much better if we could have used other synths too. I also remember that when we were recording Tropic, it was raining so heavily like today. Maybe you can hear the mood in it. When you record vocals and it’s raining, it never works out well but the synths don’t mind.
This track was born of pure experimentation with the synthesizer. Essentially we just got inspired by the sound of the sequencer, otherwise the recording wouldn’t have been created at all. You play with it a little bit, record it, then see if you can use it. It was brought to life as a coincidence really, perhaps it wasn’t even meant to be featured on the album.
We had Prophet 5, the first multi-track synthetiser. There were no presets like synths today! It was analogue so you could only produce interesting sounds by getting your hands on it! We ended up making the entire song with it.
(HWR) Neither of you is legally called ORM. What is the story behind the name?
(PR) We took the name from a book we'd read as young chaps, called The Ginger Orm. It was written by the Swedish author Frans G. Bentsson, and talks about a Viking warrior called the Ginger Orm. Well, the book was originally called The Red Orm but when it was released again after the revolution, they renamed it The Ginger Orm so that it wouldn’t spark any controversy. The book told a story about Orm the Viking who would set on a journey every spring and loot every place he’d come across. Even though the stories weren’t particularly happy, it was really well written, and we thought it was amusing.
Many years after we learned that ORM stands for snake in some Scandinavian languages. So we came up with Organization Recording of Music as an official name. But that was more so that we could explain it to people, because when we tried talking about the book, Orm, Viking, no one really knew what to think.
(HWR) And so commenced your careers as producers, resulting in music collaborations with the era’s most eminent artists such as Karel Gott, and composing films scores and music for television series. Not many people were aware, however, that you also produced your own work – and independently released four albums. One could argue it is those four LPs particularly that carry the highest artistic value, featuring catchy tracks and timeless musical ideas. Tell us more about them.
(PR) Tropic, the album featuring the most interesting things, was purely our work. To ensure we sold at least a few copies, we did a song with the Kamélie duo. At that time, the wider public were unaware of this kind of music. As well as collaborations in the West, we also looked to the lands of the far East, working on a project in India called The Youth Of India. Back in the day, film documentaries were rarely made, instead big screen projections with pre-set dia-projectors and music tailored to them were hugely popular. So Tropic eventually featured themes we had elaborated on through our collaborations in other countries, such as Japan and India.
Additionally, there were ideas we had been working around at that time period that we worked into the final album versions. This was around the time that electronic music was about to break out, and we were completely fascinated by it. When the first MIDI Instruments and digital recording technology became available this opened up a whole world of new possibilities. We already had a Moog keyboard which is one of the seminal electronic instruments. Later on we added our first sampler, an Emulator II+ and a E-mu SP12 drum machine. Sampling is an incredible tool that people almost take for granted nowadays, but back then it was cutting edge stuff! the Bands that embraced the new technology available to them really began to evolve their sound in a ways that had never been heard before.
(HWR) Did you ever get a chance to perform those songs live? Have you ever had touring ambitions at all?
(PR) When we released our album Talisman, they were sung by Petr who is a superb singer. Even today when we do demos I ask Petr to sing and quite honestly it would be ideal if it could stay that way because he always nails it. But Petr never dreamt about touring or being famous, he's more of an introvert than an entertainer. We had great time touring for a few years with Laufer but we never felt the need to showcase ourselves that much. If you want to be a singer or performer, there needs to be a bit of exhibitionism in you, when there’s not, it doesn't work.
We sold around 22 000 copies of our album Talisman. Back then, people like Karel Gott would sell hundreds of thousands of records, but for us 22 000 was quite a success as no one really knew who we were! we were just happy people actually liked the songs. We managed to get some radio play too, but we didn’t really make any money from it. Today, 20 000 copies would be a success! The two albums we did with the Kamélie duo was in English so it was distributed around the Eastern Bloc, and we ended up selling around 750 000 copies.
(HWR) What about your endeavours to get those releases abroad.
(PR) We tried, and even made it! It was very difficult during the Bolshevik period so we had to do it secretly through a guy that would smuggle the tapes to America. It was at a time when we were doing quite an interesting collaboration with the Muzak Company, an American satellite TV company that produced elevator music for all kinds of commercial settings such, hotels, banks, things of that nature. They wanted us to record covers of Sting, Tina Turner, Barbra Streisand and so on – things that were legal in the States, but ridiculously expensive. Our tapes were sent over there through a third party who we never knew what his name was. He didn't want to reveal it, and we didn't want to know. Such were the times, it just wasn’t officially possible.
What I consider as the gravest crime of Communism is that they hustled the society into a locked enclosure, without the possibility to communicate with the outer world. Ironically, it wasn’t so difficult to travel abroad, to the West. Sure, it was tricky and a rather tedious procedure, you had to have contacts but unless you were politically engaged with the dissent, everything was fine.
(HWR) And then came the revolution, and things changed completely, almost overnight. How did you come to embrace your old work in the context of the new era? How do you perceive albums like Tropic and Talisman after all these years?
(PR) Well I may disappoint you but we don’t indulge in philosophy. We just make music, we do it for a living. To make a living doing this in a small country means you really have to make compromises. If you insist on doing things exactly as you please, you may as well starve to death!
(HWR) You have one of the richest producer careers here in the Czech Republic, you’ve got a beautiful studio, collaborations with the biggest pop stars. Is there anything you would still like to achieve?
(PR) At this age, I only need to feel joy when working on music. That is to say, I’m looking forward to doing something with Karel Gott again, I’m wondering if we could do a musical but I’m not sure if that will work since the musical scene is pretty saturated here. It would be great if a young talented producer appeared, someone whom we could collaborate with and guide, in terms of both of production and artistic direction. And last but not least, it would be amazing if we could record again with a symphonic orchestra. So if any of those opportunities arise, that will make me truly content.
By Alexandra Strelcova, Olin Soldan and Robert Schön.
For us, Marcos Valle is one of the milestones of the Brazilian 70s-80s’ music scene. What has always impressed us is his ability to combine different genres, never leaving his strong Brazialian roots. His “gymnastics theme” Estrelar (1983), became a massive hit and an inspiration for Brazil’s young generation. This interview is focused on the path he undertook, in order to undestand the creative process behind his work.
(HWR) How to imagine your first encounter with Brazilian rhythms?
(MV) My first encounter with Brazilian rhythms took place very early, when I was a little boy, about 2 or 3 years old. Because I was listening to the records of my father, who had a big Brazilian record collection - therefore I was already at quite an early stage of my life in touch with Brazilian rhythms.
(HWR) As a teenager you started to write lyrics together with your brother Paulo Sergio, in which way you experienced this collaboration and the new way of expressing your thoughts?
(MV) When I started as an official musician I asked my brother to write the lyrics, or rather he asked me if he could do it. We tried it out and it worked! So we kept on doing it for a long time, even though I was working with some other writers too. I would write the music and he would write the lyrics. We are brothers, close brothers and he knew me very well and how to put WRITE the lyrics that I had in my mind.
(HWR) During the period of your first releases on the Odeon label your songs were also comments on the military ruled country. What was your intention - to reflect or to provoke?
(MV) It was a little bit of both things. I wanted people to reflect, this was the most important thing. But at the same time we wanted to provoke, it was something that would give us some pleasure to do so.
(HWR) We're especially attached to the sound of when Brazilian traditions MELT are melting with funk vibes, shaped by electronic instruments, which were the circumstances and influences in the Brazilian music scene at the end of the 70s and beginning of the 80s.
(MV) We still had a military government in the 70s. The Brazilian scene was open for new sounds, because after Bossa nova came Tropicalismo*, so music started to be more open and free, not so strictly attached to certain rules. With Tropicalismo people started using different instruments, especially electric instruments. When I recorded "Previsão Do Tempo", I used a lot of synthslike Moog, Arp etc... I was very much into that! I recorded with Azymuth who were also very keen on these devices. The whole 70s were like this. I had some influences in my music and in the 70s I melted my influences of pop and black music with boss nova.
(HWR) You moved to the USA in the 80s. What was your thought behind doing this?
(MV) I moved to the USA in 1975, and I stayed there until 1981. The reason why I did this is because I was a bit tired of the Brazilian government, of the dictatorship in Brazil, and as a reaction I was feeling not positive about going on stage and singing.. It was something very strange that happened to me. So I decided to go to the States, not to stay for a long time, but my idea was mainly to make a big change in my life. So I went there and little by little things really started to happen in music for me.
(HWR) Which new musical aspects did you encounter once you moved there?
(MV) When I moved there a lot of music that was played in the USA was rock, pop and disco. That was a time when disco music was very intense. I was listening to everything but the important thing is that I got in touch with music that I loved personally. For example I sang with Sarah Vaughan, that was the sort of jazz that I always loved in my life.
When I met the Chicago label and they recorded my songs, this was also amazing. I always loved their stuff, and used to listen to their music when I was younger. I loved their combination of jazz and rock and Latin.
(HWR) The lyrics of "Estrelar" make us smile and wonder what story is behind the track (also the studio equipment/synthesizers involved)?
(MV) For "Estrelar" I recorded the basic instrument part. "Estrelar" was one of the last songs that I recorded with Leon Ware. The track wasn't recorded in the USA but I had a demo that I brought back to Brazil in 1981, which I then recorded with all the arrangements like in the demo.
The lyrics weren't written yet and the deadline was close. We had to find lyrics in order to insert them in this song, which was very meaningful to me, on the album, otherwise the song would have been left out.
I went with my brother to the studio and started listen to it countless times to see what could inspire the lyrics. The song had loads of big energy, and the word energy was the first one that came into our mind. We thought of energy, exercise, gymnastics, workout etc.
The idea was to make people listen when they go to the beach and enjoy summertime. Also my brother and I like gymnastics, we've been doing it since we were very young. The song became a hit, not only because of the music, but also because of the lyrics, which inspired lot of people in Brazil to do exercise.
Regarding the instruments that we used, Lincoln Olivetti was the man who wrote the arrangements with me and had a lot of synths at home.
(HWR) How did you imagine the process of inspiration/production - did you first work on the lyrics or the instrumentals?
(MV) I usually work first on the instrumental part of the song, the melody the harmony, the groove and then I go for the lyrics. If I'm writing myself the lyrics which is happening a lot these days, some parts start to come together with the melody and after that I complete the lyrics. In general the lyrics come after and then I write the arrangement.
(HWR) If someone asked you to pick a track of yours, which is the most significant for you and why?
(MV) What I can say regarding my old music, for sure summer samba, in terms of the composition, as it gave me great success, but it's very complicated for me to choose a track.
(HWR) We interviewed Ivan Conti (Azymuth), who told us that you are their very good friend and "godfather". Can you tell us a few anecdotes of your music collaborations and relationship?
(MV) I'm very close with Azymuth, I'm the godfather of the group as they got together when they recorded a few songs that I wrote, for the "Filipaldi Soundtrack". They recorded with me, and asked if they could use the name Azymuth for their band, which was initially the name of a song of mine.
We stayed very close for all these years and performed countless times in Brazil together. We always had much fun doing it. I love their style, playing with José Roberto Bertrami on the piano, playing two different Rhodes together and working with the incredible talent of Ivan Conti, and also of Alex Malheiros has always been a great experience and much fun.
(HWR) What is your comment on the current music scene in Brazil?
(MV) The music scene in Brazil is quite diverse. One can find a lot of different styles. My taste goes more for pop, rock, bossa and samba. Brazil is a big country - people come from many states and bring some new music. I think this is good because you can have the chance to listen to different kinds of Brazilian music. The market, thanks to internet, doesn't depend so much on the labels, so you are free to make something independent if you want and be sure to always find your audience. This is definitely a good time for Brazilian music.
*Tropicália, also known as Tropicalismo, is a Brazilian artistic movement that arose in the late 1960s. It encompassed art forms such as theatre, poetry, and music. The movement was characterized by a combination of the popular and the avant-garde, as well as a fusion of traditional Brazilian culture with foreign influences.
Ivan Conti / Azymuth
Azymuth built up their career since the early 70s becoming one of the leading jazz-funk groups in Brazil. Ivan Conti, one of the three founding members alongside José Roberto Bertrami and Alex Malheiros, spoke with us about their mentor Marcos Valle, how they created their "samba soul" sound as same as Ivan Conti's collaboration with Madlib.
(HWR) What brought you to music, and more specifically to playing the drums?
(IC) I was born with the gift of music! I always wanted to be a musician; my parents liked music and I always listened to music at home, particularly orchestral music. First I started to learn how to play the guitar, which I still play today to complement the harmonies in my songs. I got interested in the drums when I was sixteen, when my friends and I used to go over to each others’ houses to listen to records; I saw someone playing drums and liked it. It was what I wanted.
(HWR) There are undeniable samba roots throughout the body of your music, but you can hear less of the strong bossa nova movement that had a big impact on the Brazilian music scene of the 60s, probably as it was a little before your time, too. It seems like you transformed its spirit into something more powerful and electric. How did you deal with bossa nova?
(IC) Samba is my root. Brazil's root as a whole. The other rhythms came as a result of my work. I always liked jazz and rock! My first group, Dissonant, was actually a bossa nova trio, after the rock that was popular among young people at the time. I had great opportunity in my career to work with artists of various genres. What happened to the three of us is that we had these opportunities and rehearsed a lot to try to create a new sound, an identity which was relatively undefined at the time. We experimented with electronic drums, and we tried to bring to the scene everything that did not exist yet. Anyway, I believe that all this ended up being our identity. Samba, bossa nova, rock, funk, jazz, and electronic!
(HWR) On which projects did you collaborate and what experiences did they give you that later contributed in your work with Azymuth?
(IC) I always liked to diversify! I worked with bossa nova groups, and rock groups. Before Azymuth I was in a rock band The Youngsters, in the 60s. I have always worked in the studio with musicians of every generation of my country. I did several shows with all singers as well. This helped me because I learnt to work with all possible rhythms.
(HWR) How to imagine your visits at Beco das Garrafas? Can you tell us more about that venue and its magic for you?
(IC) The Beco das Garrafas is a venue on a street in Copacabana, and it was where it all began. There were several nightclubs there – about six – of which the most significant were Bottles Alley and Garrafas. They were magical places for musicians who were beginning and could assist those who had had more time in the profession. Great singers and musicians of the time went there – Edson Machado, Dom Um, Elis Regina, Sergio Mendes and many more – and we went there to learn, because we liked the sound.
(HWR) How did you and the other Azymuth guys meet and come up with the idea of starting a band?
(IC) We started in the 60s, because I played in a nightclub called Canecão, which opened in 1968 in Botafogo, with my rock band… Jose Roberto Bertrami played in another group with his brother and another musician, while Alex Malheiros was playing in a bossa nova trio. One watched the other and the venue was very large, and with several groups playing, we talked a lot. It was then that we had the idea to get together and work on something. We started to perform at Canecão, and we played, rehearsed and created music together, always researching and coming up with new ideas. In the tests we thought we needed a vocal and put Fabyola, but at our shows people began to dance to our songs, which were successful songs of the time, both nationally and internationally. Very quickly we focused on our own songs, because they had a few vocals and that was what people wanted at the time.
(HWR) Azymuth initially started in the early 70s as Grupo Seleção, which was mainly a cover band. What made you move forward to making your own music?
(IC) After the Grupo Seleção, we started recording a lot and played in the studio more than we did live, recording with various artists like our group, the base always the three of us, and among these guest musicians, Marcos Valle, who also invited us to record the documentary soundtrack called "O Fabuloso Fittipaldi". We had previously done work with Marcos Valle, called Surround Sound, advertising a Cia Aerea, so we knew we could work with him. Marcos Valle made these songs with his brother, Paulo Sergio and we played together as a group selection. Marcos Valle is our great friend and godfather. One of the songs on the record, Azimuth, meant a lot to everyone who worked on it, and when on another day we returned to the studio people in production referred to us as Azimuth. We liked the name and so it was. So we decided to go into the studio and record the songs that we had rehearsed, an independent work.
(HWR) Following the rather acoustic tracks like "Manha" (1975) tracks from the album "Light as a Feather" (1976) already featured many more electronic components.
(IC) We always used electronic instruments. At the time, we were travelling a lot and whenever we could buy instruments we did, but we used everything we could.
(HWR) In which way did your solo works give you the chance to express yourself differently?
(IC) I believe that as a solo musician, my job is to put out work that wouldn’t necessarily fit into the group's career, as I'm always putting my electronic work, which I like a lot.
(HWR) You are currently touring and have even gone back to the studio, even though your initial keyboard-player, Jose Roberto Bertrami, passed some time ago in 2012. How would you describe your current sound with the new keyboardist Fernando Moraes?
(IC) Unfortunately Bertrami died in 2012, and we immediately needed a new keyboard-player; Fernando Moraes had been covering for Bertrami while he was battling his illness. With that, he began to travel and do shows, but could not stand being away from home for long periods, so then Kiko Continentino came along, who has been with me and Alex since March 2015. We have been doing a great job and have recently been recording. He really brings something to the band.
(HWR) In what kind of scenes have you been involved in since then and what has influenced you musically?
(IC) DJs for sure. They have really opened my mind. When I did the documentary Brasilintime, which a producer from Los Angeles invited me to do, B + called several Brazilian drummers and brought DJs. We made the film and did several shows in several countries, which really changed my perception a lot. Several DJs did remixes of Azymuth works, which reminded me that life is an eternal renewal.
(HWR) We noticed you are up for new collaborations, one to mention the recordings with Madlib in 2008
(IC) Yes, a lot! I've done enough. It’s great to meet new people, new musicians and play with another culture. We’ve had lots of collaborations between Azymuth and DJs. We did a festival in San Paolo with many of them and in August I’m playing at Dekmantel. We were in the middle of the electronic.
Meeting Madlib was another amazing experience, being next to a great DJ, a great musician, and we had the chance to exchange ideas. Each sound that was made was an incredible joy and even more for working with someone who was a fan of my group. I had a lot of respect and care for him. I’m very grateful to great DJs like Madlib, who have spread the name and music of the band internationally and among the younger generations.
The Mexican composer Gerardo Bátiz created true masterpieces of progressive fusion jazz. Especially to point out the album "Azul Con Leche" (1986), that carries the listener into a powerful sound experience. In his music Bátiz discusses not only the light beauty of life but also Mexico's political issues: "I think that in almost all of the countries in the world the governments don’t want to have a thinking population that can express their opinion and question them". An important encounter in his career and life was later on with the Engelhart family. Pete Engelhart, who became a true friend of Bátiz, created personalized percussion instruments for Airto Moreira among others. He also built exceptional sculptures with his instruments.
(HWR) You started working as a professional musician with the group "La Nopalera" in 1977. What was your role in the group?
(GB) I played flute, percussion and piano, and after a time I became arranger and producer of our records.
(HWR) The songs were politically charged and followed Latin-American rhythms. Which contents did you discuss in your music?
(GB) Basically social problems, we talked about our reality in that time. Our social problems have been pretty much the same as they are now. Social inequality, corruption in all government levels, poverty, lack of good education, lack of good jobs, etc.
I think that in almost all of the countries in the world the governments don’t want to have a thinking population that can express their opinion and question them, that is why they don’t care about providing a good education and they go together with religion to control all this aspects of society. We thought that we could make a point with our songs and that some people would identify with what we were saying and be their voice. We were inspired in the Cuban New Song Movement, which had just began few years ago with Silvio Rodriguez and Pablo Milanes, and also from Violeta Parra (Chile) and Mercedes Sosa (Argentina), just to mention some. We were trying to do the same as they were doing in their own countries but talking about our own reality.
(HWR) What kind of genres you have been introduced to during your work with "La Nopalera"? You told us that the lead singer gave you an insight into many different musical directions.
(GB) I was introduced to all the new Latin-American music, which is based on the traditional genres of each country, but the band leader studied in Brazil, so he showed me a lot of music from there. Milton Nascimento, Chico Buarque, Caetano Veloso, Gilberto Gil. All of them from Brazil. Jaime Roos from Uruguay. Roy Brown from Puerto Rico.
(HWR) In Mexico in the 80s there were some artists experimenting a lot in the field of jazz and electronic music. Eblen Macari is one to mention. Have you been involved into experimental music too to that time?
(GB) Not really, what I have been interested all the time is to mix different kinds of music from all places, maybe what we call now “World Music”.
(HWR) For the album "Azul Con Leche", how was the band structured and which instruments were involved?
(GB) We had a base group formed by two percussionists, Armando Montiel and Montserrat Revah, Cecilia Engelhart in the vocals, Juan Cristobal Perez in the bass, Juan Carlos Novelo on drums and me in the piano and steel drums. Manduka, a brazilian composer who lived in Mexico to that time, played an important role in this album. Manduka is the reason that in some of the songs we have this Brazilian feeling, he is the male voice you can hear on it. As guest musicians we had Sabo Romo on bass and Diego Herrera on alto and baritone saxes (both from “Los Caifanes” a very famous Mexican rock group), Hector Infanzón on piano (jazz pianist with classic formation), Alejandro Campos on clarinet and soprano sax and Jose Luis Vega on trombone.
(HWR) The title of your album "Azul Con Leche" is a result of a word play. What does it express for you?
(GB) It gives me the feeling of the beginning of a nice day, drinking a cup of coffee, but also nostalgic, blue.
(HWR) You said that you encountered during your stay in California a family that owned and produced metal percussion instruments for very famous musicians. How did you encounter and what kind of spirit did they contribute to your musical career?
(GB) This was one of the most important encounters in my life. This family introduced me to a lot of marvellous music I couldn’t imagine that existed. It was so inspiring that this encounter was the reconfirmation for me that I had to continue with my musical search and share it to the people. Six months after we met, I went to California to visit them. In that time a very close friend, who later became the producer of my first album "Cristal" introduced me to an album called "Red Lanta", it was one of the first albums of ECM Records from Germany. The players were Art Lande on piano and Jan Garbarek on sax and flute. It was just fantastic music, I listened to it every day. So, after a few days after my arrival, Pete Engelhart invited me to a friend’s house to have dinner. His name was Glenn and he made leather bags for drummers and percussion instruments. Glenn and his wife were showing me their workshop, when all of a sudden I saw a poster of a concert in Oslo of Art Lande! I asked Glenn if he assisted to the concert and with a smile he told me yes. I started reading the names of the musicians that participated and it were Art Lande on piano, Mark Isham on trumpet, Bill Douglass on bass and Glenn Cronkite on drums. Glenn? I turned my face to him and we started laughing a lot. Yes, he was Glenn. I asked him about Art Lande and he told me he lived in town. I couldn’t believe it. He gave me his phone number, and the rest is another story...
(HWR) For whom did they produce the percussions and what was their special way of creating them?
(GB) Pete Engelhart, made personalized instruments for Airto Moreira, Hermeto Pascoal, Nippy Noya, Mickey Hart and Mino Cinelu, just to mention some. He made whatever they asked him for. He even made some musical sculptures with his instruments.
(HWR) What is their background? Did you ever collaborate on a musical level or rather an emotional?
(GB) Pete is a jazz pianist and in the 60’s he spent some time in Brazil and fell in love with their music. After he came back to California he has always been near of the contemporary music scene there. I was just an observer.
Pete Engelhart and his percussion sculpture.
(HWR) Today you are involved in work as a tutor for scholarships of young creators of the Culture Ministry, close to Mexico City. In which way there are connection points with your work as a musician?
(GB) In many ways. I’m mainly a composer, so I identify myself with them on this basic level, we discuss how they approach their work and how they can improve it, and as an arranger and producer I try to transmit them my experience through all these years to help them finding their own way to do their things.
Alex Cima used to work as a Chief Engineer at Music Lab studios (LA), from 1975 to 1979. There he also created his two strongly visionary albums, by having access to devices such as the Aks Synthi, Nyle Steiner's modular systems and Chapman stick (to name a few). We caught up with Alex Cima to talk about the outstanding track "Deception" and his experiences with the synthesizer band LEM.
(HWR) You worked as an engineer at the Music Lab studio. In what kind of productions you've been involved there?
(AC) Music Lab was a studio that had two rooms and a rehearsal hall, we had a lot of traffic there, as for me, I generally did not work with bands as much as film/TV music, my favourite client was a film music editor, some of this work is listed on my resume page on my website.
(HWR) Did you also use it as a recording place for your own productions?
(AC) The studio afforded me the possibility of recording my own projects, which included Cosmic Connection, another album not released in Europe, and a film score.
(HWR) Which equipment was available in the studio?
(AC) The studio equipment was the usual MCI, Ampex, Otari gear one might find in an LA studio in the mid 70's to early 80's, including the usual assortment of pro microphones and signal processors.
(HWR) Your first Synthesizer was the EMS Synthi-AKS. Do you think that this as a starting point had a big impact on your approach to your music production?
(AC) After taking an electronic music class in early 1974 I was set to buy an ARP 2600, but fortunately found the Synthi AKS instead. I bought it because you cannot learn an instrument unless you have one, and the Synthi certainly taught me a lot. I also had other Synthesizers available through friends or in the studio so there was an assortment of things available. The Synthi was used for bass, leads, and fx.
(HWR) In "Deception" there is a guitar-like component. Did you use the Emmett Chapman stick to create it?
(AC) Yes, there was a Chapman Stick, however there was also an electric guitar, the sound that characterizes the piece is the vocal like sound of an alto sax through a Marshall Time Modulator.
(HWR) What is the story behind the "Deception" track?
(AC) "Deceptoion" was done (1978), typically I would start with a click track, most likely from a synth controlled by a sequencer, maybe a kick drum sound, and develop the synth "drum" tracks to nail the structure, then probably used the Synthi for bass. (Sometimes I start with a piano track, like in "Disconcerto".) I filled in with the Chapman Stick, had friends play electric guitar and alto sax.
(HWR) You collaborated on the record "Machines" from Doug Lynner and Bryce Robbley's Lem project. Which was your role on that record and how was the experience of working with them?
(AC) As for LEM, I found Doug and Bryce after organizing an electronic music concert at the Brand Library in Glendale California, several groups played that day including some of their electronic compositions from CalArts. On the basis of what I heard I proposed that we form a synthesizer band, thus LEM came into being, later on we added Daniel Sofer (notice four people in the picture on the back of the album). After a couple of years or so Daniel and I left LEM and they kept the band. "Working" in a 4 person band is like being married to 3 people, we rehearsed every day. Later we teamed up with a sculptor and engineer to include a modest light show.
Doug Lynner, was the editor of the influential synthesizer magazine, Synapse (conversations with Herbie Hancock, Kraftwerk and Tom Oberheim included) and is a founding member of the bands LEM, Moebius and Invisible Zoo. LEM was one of the first live performing synthesizer bands and their album "Machines" featured already in 1977 strong avant-garde sounds! Nowadays he still keeps his passion for analogue devices alive with performances, composing and recordings for which he is using vintage and contemporary analogue modular synthesizers.
(HWR) Together with Bryce Robbley you founded LEM in 1975 – to that time you were still studying as a music student at the California Institute of The Arts. Would you see LEM as a result of your studies?
(DL) Yes, me and Bryce were in our final semester at CALARTS when we conceived of LEM and the environment and our studies there influenced us very much. It was our idea to combine the avant garde compositional styles we were studying with Morton Subotnick and Hal Budd and the new instrumental technology of synthesizers like the Buchla and Serge synthesizers with more popular idioms found in jazz and rock music. The overarching idea to perform these new sounds live on stage was expressed by the name LEM which stood for Live Electronic Music. I remember sitting on the floor of the hallway outside of the music Department office when we came up with the name and concept. It was our big plan for what to do after graduation. It was later after graduation that we started to fill the plan in with Alex Cima, Danny Sofer and Evan Caplan.
(HWR) Which were the main topics/ characters/ devices you focused on during your studies?
(DL) We were into everything new and technological. We were fortunate to be studying with working pros like Mort and Hal and on the amazing Serge and Buchla synths we used there. The topics were never about actually using synthesizers, it was always exploring compositional concepts and sometimes getting to know the newly established composers of the moment like Steve Reich. There was also a great deal of focus on world music. I studied South Indian Flute, Gamelan Orchestra and rhythmic singing of the Bushmen and Pygmy tribes of Africa.
(HWR) LEM stands for "Live Electronic Music". How did your motto come up? As you said, performing live with synthesizers in those days was certainly not something common.
(DL) Our intent to take synthesizers on stage was enabled by a synthesizer designer named Serge Tcherepnin who was developing a new, brilliant synthesizer design and building them out in a stairwell at CalArts. They combined advanced circuitry with an affordable panel format and with them and a few other synthesizers of the day we were able to go where no synthesizer bands had gone before.
(HWR) Which was your usual live setup like?
(DL) It varied depending on the exact lineup of the moment but at the time of the LEM album Machines we used ARP String Ensemble, Buchla 200, EML Polybox, EMS Synthi AKS, Oberheim, Polyfusion, Serge Modular Music, Steiner-Parker, Sennheiser Vocoder and Syndrum instruments.
(HWR) Are there specific artists that influenced you around that time?
(DL) Steve Hillage, Bill Nelson, Brian Eno, Hawkwind, Michael Hoenig and folks like that come to mind from that time.
(HWR) The 1977 released track "I Wonder" features an intense variety of leads and effects. Was there for you a certain audiovisual idea behind the composition of the track?
(DL) I can’t speak to that. Bryce wrote the tune and I don’t recall the circumstances of the piece.
(HWR) You said that parallel to LEM you started developing the magazine Synapse in 1976, which is considered as the first music/synthesizer magazine. How did these two projects complement each other?
(DL) Being a music journalist and a musician in the same genres gave me a lot more access to situations than many who were only one or the other. Being based in LA we had access to everyone based there and everyone who came through town - and that was everybody.
(HWR) Who was involved in the magazine and under which focus did you set up the contents?
(DL) Synapse was started by Cynthia Webster and a local business man as a pamphlet style publication. I bought it along with a partner after the first two issues and created the Synapse Magazine that people are familiar with. Many people were involved but the other main players were Angela Schill, Chris August, Melody Bryant and Colin Gardner. Some of our most talented writers such as Kurt Loder and David Fricke went on to major rolls at MTV and Rolling Stone Magazine.
The focus of Synapse was to chronicle the emerging field of synthesis and create an international community around the concepts. It was always intended to be cross genre and report on the variety of musical styles from classical to rock where the instruments were appearing. It also crossed the line between music manufacturers and the DIY market. In this way we were able to support the most diverse electronic music community that we could.
(HWR) For the first ever issue of Synapse you interviewed Tom Oberheim and the German band Kraftwerk. How did you get in touch with them?
(DL) Actually, the issue that you mention is the 3rd issue of Synapse but it was the first under my editorial control and the first that was released in a full magazine size. Most people know it as the first issue. Synth designers were a natural fit for Synapse and Tom was a local so that was easy to put together. As for Kraftwerk, I was contacted by their label, Capitol Records. In fact I still have the studio promo cassette that they sent me of Autoban. They were thrilled to find a promotional opportunity for Kraftwerk because all of the other music magazines were not generally interested.
(HWR) Why did you stop as LEM and what happened next?
(DL) LEM morphed into the group that Bryce and I started called Moebius. Moebius released two projects, the self titled Moebius and Video Soldier in a Radio War. It continued to develop the live use of synthesizers. The albums received release in quite a few countries and a re-release is imminent from the VMI Records Group who own the original Moonwind label. Bryce passed away in the summer of 1999 and by that time it had been many years since we did music together but we remained close friends until the end.
(HWR) It’s now almost 40 years since the release of LEM’s Machine album and you are still going strong. What are your current musical activities?
(DL) I still perform and record routinely here in the San Francisco Bay Area and I’m still using the same Serge synthesizer that I used on the LEM album to this day. It’s called the Mystery Serge and can be seen at http://serge.synth.net/gallery/dl/. Though my current music is only related to the more esoteric music that LEM did, but, old synths are back and the Serge is going strong again. I support it with a Serge video tutorial series called Patch of The Week. That and many other things can be found on my website, http://neatnetnoise.com/.
Freak out: le quirk c'est chic!
Yasuaki Shimizu’s music has always been distinguished for its quirkiness. While maintaining a high quality, his productions are particularly eccentric in his 80s releases. The albums IQ179, Kakashi, the amazing music produced for Japanese commercials during those years (eg. Honda, Seiko, Shiseido) and his band Mariah caught our attention and made us wonder what the story was behind his music and where he got his inspiration from...
(HWR) Your albums Kakashi, IQ179 and Mariah's Utakata No Hibi were released between 1981-1983, and we feel that they are related to each other and are similar in many ways. What relationship do you see between these albums?
(YS) This was a time in my career when I was undergoing a moulting stage, mentally. It was as if my cells were actively reconstructing inside 'me' during the period in which I made these three albums. I made IQ179 in the earlier stage of this process so the quality or texture of the sound in "Kakashi" and "Utakata No Hibi"are rather different.
(HWR) What was the biggest event or music style that affected you between 1981-1983?
(YS) There wasn't really one single event that affected me. It was more as if the new kind of texture that could be found in the 'music' at that time had filtered in, and new ideas came gushing forth. I had listened to many different kinds of music from the time I was young and I was listening to different things at that time too. The artists/music that I listened to a lot and sympathized with include: Public Image Ltd, Bow Wow Wow, Klaus Nomi, Rip Rig + Panic, Talking Heads, Laurie Anderson, Holger Czukay, Kraftwerk, Jon Hassel, Brian Eno, Michael Nyman, Steve Reich, John Cage, György Ligeti, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Luigi Nono, Toru Takemitsu, Gamelan (traditional Indonesian music ensemble), Gagaku (ancient Japanese court music)… and I must say that the new wave and punk sensations at that time also rubbed onto me.
(HWR) Did you need any special synthesizers or drum machines in order to make your music?
(YS) My knowledge of electronic techniques was self-taught. Since I had created rhythms by changing the frequencies with my own oscillators, synthesizers were very fresh and interesting to me when they came out. The ones I used include Korg MS20, Yamaha DX7, Mini Moog, ARP Odyssey, Synthi AKS, Oberheim, Prophet-5, Prophet-8, Prophet-10; my favourite is the Prophet-5, which I have beside me right now too. For drum machines, I use the LinnDrum and TR-808. But I really can't let go of the TR-909. For sequencers, the QX1 that came out after the Yamaha CX-1 (MSX) is totally amazing. I used a lot of drum machine on IQ179, but purposely not on Utakata No Hibi. The rhythms on this album sound like they were made on a drum machine, but they were actually played on acoustic drums and percussion. After IQ179, I became more enthusiastic about tape editing and dubbing techniques, rather than synths and drum machines.
(HWR) How did you feel when you were making "Crow" in IQ179?
(YS) As I mentioned earlier, I underwent a mental moulting, and the biggest change that brought about was saying goodbye to the notion of constructing music. I came to focus on the texture of sound rather than its functional beauty. I made these three albums at a studio of the recording label, and even for "Crow", I didn't have any ideas on what to make beforehand; I just went into the studio, sat in front of the piano, and started playing chords. "Crow" was created spontaneously from what was inside me.
(HWR) Was "Music for Commercials", which was released in 1987, used for actual broadcasting? Did you make music using synthesized sounds when you were in Japan?
(YS) I’ve always been interested in the relationship between moving images and music. I find it especially meaningful to make music for movies, and it is something I would like to work on more in the future. I see moving images, including movies, as 'dreams' that we see in a waking state. When we immerse in movies, the 'I' world is sucked into a black hole, and this takes place not merely on a visual level, but involves a bundle of meanings. Music also integrates with moving images not in form, but as fundamental sound. "Music for Commercials" is a collection of TV commercial music that I made in the beginning of 1980. All were broadcast on TV except "Kachofugetsu". At the time the approach to TV commercials in Japan did not show the product to the viewer directly to encourage purchase, but instead started with a seemingly unrelated image that somehow suggested or evoked the product. Music played an important role in this scheme, and I spent a lot of time discussing the feeling of the image we wanted to convey with the directors. Everything was improvised whilst I immersed myself in the video at the music studio. For "Music for Commercials", I used sampling machines more than synthesizers. At any rate, we didn't have any high-speed computers with massive memory space at that time, not even floppy disks yet. When the E-MU finally came out it was extremely useful, but I didn't get one for my studio until much later. I made my music and edited tapes by using a 4 bit sampling function on Korg's SDD-2000, a delay machine. "Music for Commercials" was recorded mainly with this Korg SDD-2000 and an AKAI S900 that came out right afterwards. I always used two of the AKAI S900 at the same time.
(HWR) Were you affected in any ways from travelling in Europe? What do you think are the differences between Western music and Japanese music?
(YS) I was in Paris between 1985 and 1989, and lived in London for two years from around 1990. My life has involved a lot of moving around. But all that moving has had its positive effects too - I’ve learnt to interpret and understand things from many different angles rather than seeing them from a single perspective; that there is never anything that is absolutely correct in this world; that in order to connect spontaneously to the body memory I have cultivated, I have to break though my wall of notions and adopt a flexible mindset.
(HWR) You have collaborated with Ryuichi Sakamoto and Nam June Paik too - could you please tell us a little more about them?
(YS) I only participated on one project with Nam June Paik: Bye Bye Kipling, which he had planned with Ryuichi Sakamoto and Akira Asada.
It was a TV show using satellite to stream different artists performing live from New York, Paris, Tokyo and Seoul in two to three simultaneous broadcasts, and I played in Tokyo with Ryuichi Sakamoto. I had originally met Sakamoto in the late 1970s, and we did quite a few projects and performed together, so I feel that we are comrades.
Translated from Japanese by Joyce Lam
Michael Rother stands out for his unique musical vision and has participated in various landmark projects of German music history, like Kraftwerk, Neu! and Harmonia. Neu!, the duo created with Klaus Dinger, allowed Rother to depart from the normative Anglo-American standards of that time. Particularly this project became a reason to transgress musical boundaries and pursue his own experimental intentions. It was a pleasure to sit down with him and talk about his eventful career, including interesting details about the term Krautrock and how he produced the whole second side of Neu! 2 in a single night studio session.
(HWR) Where to begin?
(MR) In 1965 I joined the band Spirits of Sound and started to learn about music, taking first steps – at the time that was all I wanted to do. I wanted to sound just like my heroes The Beatles, The Kinks, The Rolling Stones - and there was such a huge sense of distance because of the respect they commanded, that you wouldn’t even dream of getting anywhere near that level. But over the course of the following years, as a result of growing self-confidence in my guitar playing technique and understanding of connections, from the political to social and those within myself, my sense of dissatisfaction, misgivings about copying someone else´s ideas grew. Gradually this feeling, that it was simply not enough to be an echo of another musician ideas, became stronger and along with that the desire to break out of the cosmos of Anglo-American music emerged. I felt very isolated and didn’t know anyone who shared my feelings about the necessity for one´s own musical identity.
(HWR) You were a member of the German band Kraftwerk from the early days in 1971. What caused you to join the group?
(MR) In early 1971 I had not yet heard anything about a band called Kraftwerk. A happy coincidence led me to their studio. A fellow conscientious objector who worked in the same mental hospital near Düsseldorf as I did had an invitation from Kraftwerk to record film music in their studio, and he asked me if I fancied coming along. I thought about it briefly: should I go to my girlfriend’s or should I go with him? (laughs) It was this fork in the road in my life, that probably decided everything that came subsequently…
(HWR) Which kind of atmosphere awaited you in the studio?
(MR) The atmosphere in the studio was calm and relaxed. Ralph Hütter played an organ and jammed with a drummer called Charlie Weiss. I spotted a bass standing in the corner, grabbed it and played along with them. I thought then, “Hm, this guy Ralph Hütter is special. We can play melodies to and fro without the need to discuss details. There´s a common ground.” The music didn’t have its roots in Blues or the Anglo-American school of pop music, rather one that returned to a central European tradition, like folk or classical music, the world in which we were minted, so to say. I think you can hear that in Kraftwerk’s music, and in mine too. It was such a surprise for me, that there was actually someone else who obviously felt the same way about the basics of our music, about melodies and harmonies. Florian Schneider and Klaus Dinger were sitting on a sofa listening to what was happening and noticed the chemistry between Ralph Hütter and me. They liked what they heard and so we exchanged phone numbers. Two or three weeks later Florian called me and invited me to join the band. It was that simple!
The weird thing was that Ralf Hütter in the meantime had decided to abandon the band project and return to university. So I didn’t come to play with him, but nevertheless we moved in the same musical realm. I was on a journey with Florian Schneider and my future Neu! bandmate Klaus Dinger. The music that we were playing live had a very rough, primitive sound and structure. Not in a bad way –there was just no refinement, just pure excitement which always ended in an orgasmic crescendo. The sound from my guitar was more or less the same as before, but the way I was playing was different. No more riffs, no more solos, I’d completely discarded all that.
(HWR) So how come you left Kraftwerk?
(MR) In the summer of 1971, Florian, Klaus and I went into the studio with Conny Plank to record the second Kraftwerk album. Conny, the great sound engineer and producer who later was involved in many of my album projects, couldn´t prevent our failure. The good gigs were incredibly intense and ecstatic, and sparks really flew. The people went completely berserk. I had a feeling of ecstasy too, in the good moments. In the studio, though, in this airless environment with no feedback from an audience which shared our excitement, too much was missing for us to be able to reproduce that thrill. On top of that, hostility was in the air because of the constant psychological battles between Klaus and Florian, who are both very spiky people… that works as a compliment too, but in this case, both had a lot of “issues” and I felt uncomfortable in that atmosphere. It quickly became clear, that we wouldn’t continue together as Kraftwerk. Klaus and I looked at each other and thought, “We have a similar idea of the kind of music we want to make. Let´s work as a duo.”. We then spoke to Conny and he was interested in working with us and so we booked a studio in Hamburg. The studio was expensive and it was a pretty big risk for us poor musicians at the time, but by paying the production costs out of our own pockets we were independent of any record label and had total artistic freedom.
Looking back to that time I know that we were unbelievably lucky with the first album. All that Klaus and I had were visions of our music, there were no pre-recorded sketches or demos of our ideas because we didn´t have any sophisticated studio gear at home. Everything had to come together in those four nights in the studio. Klaus and I were like two painters standing in front of a blank canvas and just letting loose. Our motto was: concentrate on the essential elements, keep moving, work intuitively.
(HWR) When founding Neu! was there a certain consciousness about establishing a new, innovative musical direction as already the fact of giving your project the name "Neu!" indicates an awareness about it?
(MR) Neu! stood for the ambitious exploration of new possibilities, the development of a new style and abandoning examples from the past. That was our professed aim. The idea for the name was a contribution by Klaus. At the time I found the name too contrived, too cool, but I didn’t have any better ideas, so we agreed on the name Neu!. I tip my hat to Klaus. The name was a very good idea, one of his many excellent contributions to our project.
(HWR) What was your studio setup like?
(MR) At the time I had nearly the same equipment as during the Beat and Rock time, and that didn’t change quickly due to lack of money. However, the idea behind the music was different - and that was the important thing. I had a wonderful Gibson Deluxe guitar, an "antique" bass from the late 1950s, a distortion pedal and two volume pedals… - the only big addition to my gear in 1971 was an echo machine. That was all I had until I bought an electronic drum machine and some Farfisa keyboards in early 1973.
(HWR) We read that you never attended a musical school and your approach to music was intuitive and spontaneous. Did this allow you to experiment without being restricted to certain musical rules and therefore limitations?
(MR) Yes, that was totally intentional. I never wanted to learn music theory, didn´t want to be limited in my experimentations by laws or rules. My ears were my only guide. If something felt right to me, it was good. I took the liberty to decide everything for myself and this is still my approach to music.
(HWR) Your first record was released in 1972, featuring the 10:07 min track "Hallogallo", for which on the one hand the structure is essential, but is very dynamic at the same time. How do you avoid being repetitive when recording such a long track?
(MR) Repetition was essential and the idea was to create a musical structure, a drive or groove which could go on forever. Repetition fascinates me since my childhood days. The music I heard in Pakistan which seemed to just go on and on with no obvious end appealed to me and most probably is at the heart of my music since then. In the early 70s, to create a repetitive structure was a time-consuming process – you had to play the part manually over and over again. This creates a trance-like state for the musician and if he´s lucky, also for the listener.
When we recorded "Hallogallo", Klaus and played the basic tracks, drums and guitar, together in one go. Then each of us went into the recording room to add overdubs. At this point the happy coincidences began to happen. I suddenly had a wonderful feedback on my guitar which enabled me to play these long tones. At some point Conny turned the tape around and I added melodies to the song being played backwards. After that it was turned around again and the last forward played guitar part was now backwards. The combination worked beautifully. Conny, with his huge talent, was able to memorise the highlights, scattered on different tracks and over the 10 plus minutes. At the time there was no computer-aided mixing. Everything had to be done manually and reproduced at the correct moment. Klaus and I always helped, but Conny understood what we were going for and organised the best parts and created the sound with hardly any studio gear. This feat is even more impressive if you just imagine that all that Conny had was a reverb plate and one tape machine for a simple echo.
The thing that was most important for us was to work and find decisions incredibly quickly, because the available time in the studio was strictly limited and blank tapes were incredibly expensive. Today the situation in a home-recording environment is totally different, there’s rarely even a limit to the disc capacity… if you do reach the limit, you just buy another one. When the recordings for Neu! 1 were finished, I went home and played the album to my family and my girlfriend. I was so happy. The sound was great, my people loved it.
(HWR) We heard of people saying that on the album Neu! 2 are very first examples of what we nowadays call "Remix". Can you tell us more of the story behind this intention?
(MR) It´s a nice compliment but I don´t see it that way. The truth is that we had nothing like the experimentations that you can hear on side 2 on our minds when we entered the studio. For the second album we had an advance payment from the record company which we used for the production and which reduced our financial risks. However, it also made us more demanding and bold. We worked in the same studio and again at nighttime, because the night shift was cheaper, but now recorded on 16 tracks for the first time. 16 track recordings offer so much more space for all kinds of ideas and colours in the music. However, this opportunity was also a temptation, a sort of trap which I probably didn´t see at the time.
When you listen to pieces like “Für Immer”, you can hear me playing a lot of instruments: several guitars layered over one another, a violin, pianos both backwards and forwards, and there are loads of additional distorted noises. We were still the action painters. One of us always did a overdub. That means that these 10 or 12 minutes of the full track were played over and over again. It was a time-consuming process and led to the situation that we didn´t have enough tracks for a whole album when our time in the studio was already nearly over. There was only one more night to put together the whole second side of Neu! 2. A tough spot!
A few months before that, we had released the single: "Super" and "Neuschnee". At the time, the label was totally focused on long players, and therefore didn’t do anything to promote the single. Klaus and I felt that the two tracks were wasted on the single release and decided to use them again on the album. But we still needed more material. That’s when Klaus started the initiative to manipulate the tracks. We spent the night creating really crazy stuff. Klaus kicked the turntable with the single on and we recorded the tracks in different tempos. I had a cassette player that really garbled the sound – this led to the track "Cassetto". That night we brought everything together that sounded unique, and added the two original pieces, "Super" and "Neuschnee".
We were relieved that we had a full album to present to the label but we got the reaction I was expecting – “Are you kidding”, “Are you trying to screw us over”, “You can’t be serious”. The fans and critics unanimously hated us for the second side at the time.
(HWR) What was the record company’s reaction?
(MR) The record company had no right to an opinion and just accepted what we gave them but they clearly were not pleased with the second side of Neu! 2. They expected a very negative reaction from the public - and were right.
(HWR) How was the feedback for Neu! '75 then?
(MR) With Neu! '75, the musical world was back in order again. I was convinced of the album and everyone around shared a positive feeling - but public interest in Neu! started fading in Germany in the mid 70s. And then Neu! totally disappeared in the 80s. No more records were pressed, and no more were sold either. Neu! was forgotten by the public. I was lucky that my solo career took off big-time in 1977 but I was still disappointed about the lack of interest in Neu!, let alone Harmonia, in the late 1970s and 1980s.
The real renaissance for our music didn’t come until 2001. We’re here, fifteen years later – our comeback has lasted longer than Neu! survived the first time round.
(HWR) What is Krautrock for you?
(MR) I never chose or liked that term and used to actively reject it, actually. Over the decades, so many tags and genres have come and gone. There were terms like "Deutschrock" and "Meditation Music" which were used in the 70s. I never wanted to be a part of any of those circles. It was quite the opposite of my intentions to be put into a box with other bands and artists. No disrepect, but my idea was to be different, not similar. Even though I respected other bands like Kraftwerk and Can, their music was always quite different from where I was heading. If someone tried to find similarities between their and my music my answer always was and still is, “Please come closer and find out what you can see, when you’re standing with your nose right up to the glass.” Because it’s then that you discover the sheer amount of different tones, emotions and sound structures.
The term Krautrock resurfaced again sometime in the mid-90s. The book "Krautrocksampler" by Julian Cope attracted the attention of many younger journalists and music lovers to the artists which were Cope´s favourites. Even though the book is full of factual mistakes - they were the result of the lack of available information at the time and Cope tried to compensate this fault with his huge enthusiasm, his ravings and assumptions as a fan - "Krautrocksampler" changed a lot. For the first time some journalists in Germany began writing about us, because we seemed to be valued in other countries. The tag Krautrock is now used with respect, the people have agreed on it, and the fans use it. Nowadays, the ambivalence which was noticeable in the early 1970s has disappeared.
I still have photocopies of the first reviews in 1972 when Neu! was released in the UK. There were people who thought, “Wow, these guys have something really new, really interesting.” But there were also people who seemed to have a problem accepting the fact that a new music didn´t come from their own country.
(HWR) Does it make sense to speak about Krautrock in the context of music produced now or is it a genre that you think was strictly related to that period of time?
(MR) That depends entirely on how sharp you want the distinction to be. In terms of history, Krautrock was what happened then.
There’s a nice story: my friend Thomas came to me in the mid-90s, asking if I wanted to go to a concert. One of the bands playing was called Sonic Youth, the other Stereolab. Standing in the crowd at one point I thought: what’s going on here? The music sounded as if I was listening to myself. I could hear that Stereolab had taken the basic sense of motion and some harmonic elements from "Hallogallo" and "Für Immer", even if they did add something great to it, especially wonderful vocals.
Many new popular bands in the last 10, 15 years have picked up our music and adapted several stylistic elements from Neu! and Harmonia for their own music. Most of the time journalists point out those bands to me because I don´t actively follow the contemporary music scene. Sometimes I´m impressed by what the new bands come up with and at other times I´m puzzled that they seem to misunderstand what our aims were. It was all about daring something new, steering away from trodden ground and not copying musical ideas that already existed.
Translated from German by Hannah Cassens Marshall
It was a spontaneous encounter in a London bar back in 1980 that brought Vic Martin and Rex Neyman together ultimately leading to the formation of the band “Rexy”. Soon afterwards, in 1981, they released their first and only album “Running Out of Time” on Alien Records. It is a product of the vibrant and experimental 80s music scene in London and captivates by its peculiar soundscapes and intriguing vocals.
(HWR) How did Rexy arise?
Rexy started when someone I didn't know (Vic) came up to me in a bar and asked me if I wanted to make a record. This was purely based on the way I looked as he had no idea if I could sing or not (which I can't really!). At the time I was a regular at the Blitz club so I guess he thought my image would make a good front person. He had the song written and was already with the record company (Alien) he just needed the singer. All I had to do was go to the studio and do "(Don't) Turn Me Away" which I spoke as I had no idea what to do to it! Its the kind of thing you dream about as a teenager I guess (which I was then).
(HWR) Your first release was a 7" in 1980, featuring as a main track "(Don't) Turn Me Away". Followed one year later by two further EP's, melting then in the album "Running Out Of Time". Was the album a logic consequence out of the previous releases or already scheduled?
The Rivvets (1977 – 1979) were a West London based pop band who released two singles on Alien Records. Their lead vocalist/songwriter, Chris Burne approached me (Vic Martin) with the idea to collaborate on a single, which would be released by Alien Records. The result was "Don’t Turn Me Away". To everyone’s astonishment, the single received significant airplay and long before Alien asked us to record an album…
(HWR) Where did you record "Running Out Of Time" and how was the studio setup like?
"Don’t Turn Me Away" was recorded at Freerange Studios in Covent Garden. The backing track was recorded only using my ARP Odyssey analogue monosynth. The rest of the album was recorded in Ark Studios in Kingston Upon Thames. The studio was located in a basement underneath a music shop and was a (Brenell) 8 track setup with a good selection of outboard equipment. I used the aforementioned ARP Odyssey, a Wasp and Spider analogue synth/sequencer, Casio 201, Hammond M102/Leslie 147 and a Hohner Clavinet. The guitar was a Fender Stratocaster and the bass on "Funkybutt" was a Fender Jazz.
Ark studios was a dump! It smelt of damp and when the record shop above it was closed we had to climb up a step ladder and through a trapdoor to use the toilet upstairs. So Rock and Roll!
(HWR) Is there a reason why you called the album "Running Out Of Time"?
I think we called it "Running Out Of Time" because it was our favourite song on the album back then, and we felt it made a good title.
(HWR) Was the graphical concept of the album inspired by the title and who did take care of creating it?
The artwork was done by a fairly well known cartoonist, Tom Johnston. I think it is influenced by "Running Out Of Time" because there are egg timers on the drawing. Vic and I were a bit pissed off at the time though, because the record label didn't consult us on the artwork; we felt we should have had more say in it and we didn't really like it much. I suppose over the years we have grown to like it, as it now seems synonymous with the album.
(HWR) The track "Nervoso" stands somehow out from the others. Especially because of the non-usage of vocals and its disco sound component. Which is the story behind this track and which were the instruments used for it?
A friend of mine gave me a bizarre little preset drum machine which had some really strange patterns and the track "Nervoso" was kickstarted from that weird box really. The frenetic rhythm part was played manually on a Casio 201 (very lo fi ) pcm synth with the lead played on the trusty ARP. We finally overdubbed some real drums courtesy of Mike Anscombe. Finally, Rex added faux Latin American warbling at the end!
I remember at the time, latin stuff was very in vogue at the clubs I went to (Blitz, Le Kilt, St.Mauritz etc), and I've always loved it so doing a latin track was fab.
(HWR) What role did humour play in your lyrics, like for example in "(Don't) Turn Me Away"?
We always liked to have a laugh while we were making songs; we didn't take any of it seriously really. The lyrics were either ironic or ridiculous, we just wanted to have fun and then go to the pub! But I don't think humour was involved in "Don't Turn Me Away"... I don't really know why I laughed doing the vocals?
(HWR) Did you use a particular effect chain for your voice?
Nothing out of the ordinary. These were pre- computer, analogue recording (onto 1” tape) days, so I imagine we just compressed the vocal and added reverb/delay to taste.
(HWR) Can you tell us a bit more about the context and influences you have been surrounded by to that time?
As I said before I was a regular at the Blitz and various other clubs (Club for Heroes, Hell, Beatroute etc) during that time, and was also doing my degree in fashion design, so I was very much involved in that scene and in clothing (what is now termed as new romantic, but which we didn't call ourselves!). It was a very creative time; we'd grown bored of punk but music and clothes had stayed very diy which was great. I feel sorry for people now with every high street and person looking the same. Back then we used to buy clothes (and records) from jumble sales, charity shops and make stuff ourselves. It was all much more experimental.
(HWR) How come that 1981 was a pretty tough year for Rexy (with in total 3 releases) and then already from the following year on your outcome stopped?
Well, I think we had some success with DTMA; it had some radio airplay and it seemed as if we were going to go somewhere. So when the album was released we had great hopes for it but even though we did some interviews and a couple of live performances, the album didn't really do anything and Alien did very little to promote us. As I said I was also doing my degree (we recorded the album in my summer holidays!) so when the album wasn't the success we hoped it would be, I continued my degree and Vic carried on as a musician playing with Eurythmics, Curiosity Killed the Cat, Boy George amongst others.
(HWR) How would you explain the strong request for your record "Running Out Of time" nowadays?
Absolutely no idea! We are amazed that it seems to have a bit of a cult following.... but we are thrilled too. Perhaps you could explain it to us?
(HWR) For 2016 a re-issue of "Running Out of Time" is set up on Lucky Number Records. Could this even be a reason to go back into the production of new tracks?
Yes, we're already making new songs... we are really pleased with the new material and I am getting involved much more with the lyrics which I am really enjoying.
Over the last year or so we have written and recorded tracks for a new album. We have 4 more vocal tracks to put down and then we’ll be there. We’re really pleased with the new tunes which are a logical development from the material on the first album.
Hans Peter Ströer initially recorded and released the album “Ströer” at the incredible age of 19 in 1979. During the 1980s the two brothers, Hans Peter and Ernst Ströer, then released music under the name Ströer Duo or Ströer Bros (with Howard Fine) such as “Fluchtweg Madagaskar” and “Nomaden”. They spoke with us about how their career set off and unveiled their secret on how a track title became a slogan for not falling in love with groupies.
(HWR) On the STRÖER album (1979) there is this absolutely outstanding track called "Don't Stay For Breakfast". It is drawn by boogie bass lines and fat synthesizer sounds and all in all very ahead for its time. You told us that you have been "obsessed" by creating what arises as an artistic vision in your fantasy - do you remember under which circumstances the idea for that track arised?
(HPS) Well, back then I was 22 and I was a Jazz musician, touring with Volker Kriegel's Mild Maniac Orchestra since I was 19. The title of this song was kind of a slogan for us, a method not to fall in love with one of the goupies. (laughs) Musically, I wanted my first album not to be pure Jazz, but Pop songs with Jazz elements. This came out naturally, because I had listened to the Beatles, Duke Ellington and Jimi Hendrix, James Brown etc. In my ears all that belonged together, I was a fan of all those styles. I liked the drive and raffinement of Jazz as well as the powerful sound and erotic attraction of Pop. I'm not sure if I was ahead of time. To me it seems that today music is behind time, repeating the old stuff again and again.
(HWR) How was then the following implementation process?
(HPS) I played all the tracks by hand, except the drums were done by Evert Fraterman. Of course I had a four track tape machine in my house and so I could try over and over again with no time limit until I was satisfied with a track. But the problem was the poor sound quality and the lack of synchronization. Those homemade tracks could not be transferred to the 16 track tape in the professional recording studio. I had to play it all again manually in the big studio. Of course also the fat bass line, that I played on a Minimoog. In the late 70ies we still had no handies, no smartphones, no computers or internet. So we had much more free time than today. We've put all our energy and concentration in our music, not being interrupted by any kind of inbox. We had our musical vision and would not stop until we had it on tape. The outside life was quiet and slow and did not bother us too much.
(HWR) You brother Ernst also collaborated with you for Ströer.
In which way was Ströer Duo different?
(ES) Hans did the STRÖER album in 1977 and asked me to play percussion on one track. I was 14 years old, still going to school - and very excited. I think it was my first studio experience. To record something professionally these days, you had to rent studios and sound engineers - which was expensive, very expensive. There were no things like laptops, plug ins, home studios - only small stereo or even mono tape recorders. So I felt quite small behind the huge mixing desk, where every minute counted ...
The first Ströer Duo Project "Fluchtweg Madagaskar" happened some years later under completely different circumstances. "Mood Records" gave us the chance to record in Stuttgart, at the legendary Zuckerfabrik Studio. For the time of the recordings, we actually lived in the recording room with our sleeping bags on the floor between all our instruments. Soon, the sound engineer noticed that he could very well leave us alone. So we recorded each other’s ideas and didn’t leave the studio for the whole production time - an extremly inspiring setup for both of us that payed off: "Fluchtweg Madagaskar" made it on the list with the best productions of the year by the „Preis der deutschen Schallplattenkritik" e.V..
(HWR) There is a press sheet of the Ray Lynch "Let's jazz - Dance with Ray Lynch " record, stating that you are the composer of the album. Can you tell us the story behind this record?
(HPS) Ray had a Dance School in Stuttgart and was producing a tutorial video. We were doing a lot of our recordings in the Zuckerfabrik Studio in Stuttgart. There I met him and he hired me to do the soundtrack. In his studio he performed his program with a group of scholars. I watched the show counting bars and writing down notes. In a way the process was a bit similar to the writing of filmmusic.
(HWR) Your career is marked by some encounters with well-known musicians like Donna Summer, Amanda Lear or La Bionda (to only mention a few). Which was the most inspiring collaboration?
(HPS) There were – and still are – so many, and one of the magic moments happened in a rehersal with mulimedia artist Eberhard Schoener and The Police in Munich's ARRI filmstudios in 1977. I was playing keyboards on this tour and recording project. Andy Summers was supposed to be the guitar player, but when he arrived from London, he brought Sting and Stewart as a surprise, telling us they had no money and needed work. So they all joined the band. I will never forget that moment, when Sting walked up to the mikrophone and started to sing with his metallic high voice. I had goose bumps immediately. Later on we toured for two weeks, we did some TV shows and recorded two albums together with Eberhard. Roxanne was not yet released, Police was still totally unknown in Germany, we could walk around in town without any problems.
(HWR) From 1984 to today you composed music for more than 150 films. Is the production process still marked by a lot of improvisation if you already have the image and the mood for which to produce for?
(HPS) Yes it is. Listen to the old classics of filmmusic and you will find some quite complex musical designs. Composition was done in vertical mode in those days, bar by bar, step by step, thinking it over again and again, changing a note here and there. The result was a musical structure full of strong and elaborate ideas, masterfully decorated and brilliantly detailed. Today we are still in an era of horizontal writing, using loops, two bars of repeating background, just let it roll and fiddle about a bit, and after some minutes it sounds quite nice, doesn't it? (laughs). Results are often very poor in structure and design, totally in contrast to the growing complexity of the real life, the real world. Most people seem to use music as a shelter, just for relax and easy listening. No wonder improvisation still is the big thing at the moment, but I'm pretty sure it will be out of fashion in short time. It just gets boring, especially if the musicians are not paramount improvisers. But boredom could be the perfect humus for a new generation of master composers. So I'm quite optimistic for the future of music!
Richard James Burgess
Have you ever heard of the Simmons SDSV? Simmons SDSV is a very old drum module created by Richard Burgess, who was also a part of various other influential music projects such as "Landscape", "Shock" and "Accord". Especially the rich and powerful sounds of his track “Dream games” intrigued us. But how did those vibrant sounds came to life?
In 1980 you invented the cult drum machine "Simmons SDSV", which is considered as the very first alternative to acoustic drums. How did the project arise?
(RB) I was touring at the time with my band Landscape. We had built our own PA system using some Vitavox speakers we won in a competition that we powered with Quad 405 hi-fi amplifiers and a 32 channel mixing console that we built from two 16 channel consoles. You couldn’t buy large live consoles at the time. The system sounded incredible as attested to by many of our live reviews from the time. The band was entirely instrumental then, and all electric or electronic aside from the drums. I had the most studio experience so I used to set up the sounds at sound check and JJJeczalik (later of Art of Noise), who was one of our crew and my drum tech then, would oversee the board during the gig. As I set up the sounds everything sounded perfect until I opened the drum mics. I was using homemade triggers to drive electronics from my drums but my acoustic Pearl set still needed micing. Everything bled into the mics and the sound would become woolly or at least woollier than it was with everything DI’d. We would talk about this while we were in transit to the gigs and I started to wonder why drums were still acoustic. Everything else was electric or electronic and yet drums were still in the stone-age. I checked out every electronic percussion device on the market (I actually wrote an article about them all for Sounds International at the time) and nothing was an actual substitute for real drums. They were mostly electronic effects – the PewPew type sounds—like SynDrums. I analyzed why drums sound the way they do and it was obvious why electronic drums did not perform the same function. I began working on a few ideas and I approached Joe Pollard of SynDrums who wasn’t interested and likewise with all the drum companies including Pearl who sponsored me at the time. John Walters was in touch with Dave Simmons because he was the distributor of the Lyricon—the first electronic wind synthesizer. I approached Dave with my idea and he was interested. We mocked up my ideas on an ARP 2600 and handbuilt the first prototype. We never fully realized my original concept but it was this prototype that I used on all of the Shock recordings and on the Landscape album From the Tearooms of Mars…. I still have that prototype illustrated below.
Simmons SDSV first model.
(HWR) Did you ever collaborate or conceive other electronic instruments after the Simmons SDSV?
(RB) There are quite a few things I have floating around. I have an electric drum project that I will finish one of these days. I also want to get back to electronic drums because they never fulfilled the potential that they have. For me it’s a matter of time and priorities.
(HWR) Which was your studio setup back in the days and was there a certain equipment that you constantly used to create electronic sounds?
(RB) My first real synthesizer was an EMS Synthi A. That’s the briefcase version of the VCS3. It was an amazing machine and I wish I still had it. After that my home studio exploded with equipment, some of it homemade and most of it heavily modified. The Roland MC-8 MicroComposer became the heart of it all and that drove Roland System 100Ms, a JP4, ProMars, JP8, eventually Juno 6, Juno 106, Yamaha DX7, Roland D50, Korg M1—you name it I probably had one or several at some point. I always really loved the System 100Ms. Mine were heavily modified and incredibly fickle – a fraction of a millimeter adjustment on one of the many faders would completely change the sound. You often had no idea what you were going to get. That was part of the creative thrill. You’d be aiming for one sound and get something much better but you had to hold your breath and hope that it wouldn’t change because it was sometimes impossible to get a sound back again.
(HWR) Your attachment to electronic devices is certainly defined by your side project "Shock", which released one record in 1981. How did the project arise and why it never had a follow up?
(RB) My longtime friend, Rusty Egan, has to get all the credit for discovering Shock and bringing them to me. He picked the first song—Angel Face and we wrote the B-side RERB (our initials) in about ten minutes in my studio. There were several singles but no album. Unfortunately, that is the nature of the music industry and especially back then when we were totally dependent on major labels. If you couldn’t persuade the label to release a single or album there weren’t many viable options. I think Shock is one of the undiscovered gems of that period—they were a performance art group really and it was a no-brainer to put music to it but RCA really didn’t do a good job promoting those releases.
(HWR) Which was your role in the Jazz-funk oriented band "Landscape" and the Avant-garde electronic band "Accord"?
(RB) I was the drummer in Landscape. The project started out as John Walters’ band playing his compositions. By the time the lineup settled to the five of us we were all contributing compositions and arrangements and we self-managed by splitting up the various tasks that needed to be done. My job was dealing with record labels and distribution.
Accord was Chris Heaton’s (the keyboard player in Landscape) band. Chris was always on the cutting edge with avant-garde music. I played electric and electronic percussion in that group. I built most of the instruments myself. At the time I was studying drum set with Tony Oxley and since Tony was not only a phenomenal jazz drummer but also a pioneer in avant-garde, free improvised European music, he had a big influence on my interests and playing. Having said that, I never had a lesson from him on avant-garde music or free-improvising; he had an interesting almost Yoda-like teaching style that was highly disciplined and wide-ranging. At that time, he covered classical music and jazz and was a stickler for precision but was a deep theoretical thinker, highly committed to his musical principles, and very provocative. I would walk away from those lessons with my head spinning with possibilities.
Between Landscape and Accord I don’t think I could have been involved in more mind-expanding areas of music. Landscape was stimulating beyond belief because everyone was so capable as musicians, composers, and arrangers. Our rehearsals were three hours long and could have been used as a teaching tool for organizational efficiency. I learned more working in that band than I did at Berklee and Guildhall. With Accord we free-improvised to the extent that our live performances and the BBC Radio 3 programmes we did began as simply a list of titles. There were no written guidelines or preconceptions as to what we would play. One of us would begin, everyone would respond, and the pieces would develop organically between us. Consequently we never played any piece the same twice although we did recycle the titles.
On reflection, it was an extraordinarily expansive opportunity playing with both of those groups and that we were able to sustain ourselves doing so is even more incredible. Everything I have done since, in some way, flowed from those experiences.
(HWR) Being involved in the New Wave/Industrial scene - were there any artists that had a big impact on you?
(RB) So many and in so many different ways; I really liked Fad Gadget, his use of electric tools and non-musical sounds—his general sensibility. I’d have to give some credit to all of the artists/musicians who were delving into these ideas during the seventies and before. It was an exciting time, there was a sense that there were no boundaries in pop music for a moment and, while that turned out not to be true, it felt very freeing at the time. Of course whenever something new happens, the copycat releases flood the market and what was new becomes the new norm and then passé almost immediately. Musicians I gravitated toward tended to be open-minded but the monetization process (trying to make a living) via the industry, ranging from playing in bars to getting record deals and generating hits, tends to squeeze the music into a preformed box.
(HWR) Were your engineering skills an advantage in the process of making music or could they even be a limitation to reach unexpected results?
(RB) Absolutely. I didn’t realize for some years how useful my early training in electronics and my interest in science would be and how instrumental it would be in the development of my career. I feel most content when these various interests merge. In terms of my audio engineering background, the sixties, seventies, and the eighties were experimental decades with regard to audio production. Then again maybe they all are. The engineers and producers I was fortunate enough to work with and the ones I really respected were always trying to push boundaries. A lot of techniques we take for granted today were developed in that period by people who will never be properly acknowledged but many of whom are still alive today.
(HWR) Whats your opinion on the evolution of music industry and more specifically on the evolution of mixing/mastering standards with all its consequences in terms of dynamics/volumes etc?
(RB) As we know, evolution via natural selection is random. It’s not that a species is constantly getting better it’s that characteristics that prove to be beneficial for survival are selected for in the gene pool. Likewise with the music industry, things change not because of any trend towards qualitative improvement but because something someone does works in the marketplace or becomes accepted. Musicians have had a tough time in the past fifteen years primarily because the music industry did not stay up with the technology and embrace digital distribution when it should have in the mid-nineties. Musicians, engineers, and producers had little to do with that but they bore the brunt of the consequences. The tech companies stepped into the vacuum left by the majors and for four years music was only available via digital distribution through free channels.
There have been positive outcomes from that as well as negative. One of the negative facets has been that there is far less money available for most recording projects today. A positive aspect is that the barrier to entry is much lower for a young person with aspirations: a laptop and some cheap or free software gets you in on the creative and distributive side. The downside is that best practices are not necessarily handed on to the next generation and quality control can be patchy or non-existent.
Irrespective of what we may each think about someone’s mixing or mastering practices, if a completely squashed track is a hit (because of or in spite of its lack of dynamics) others will emulate that sound. This too will pass. It’s not worth freaking out about. Some music needs to breathe and use all the great dynamic range that digital has given us and some needs to hit as hard as it can. So be it. It’s like the digital/analog or vinyl/digital argument— if you prefer one over the other buy it. What’s great is that we have the choice now. There is so much great music out there that if I don’t like something, for any reason, I don’t have to listen to it.
(HWR) Are you working on some new music projects right now?
(RB) Making music for me is like breathing. It’s automatic; I have to do it. So yes, I am always working on music in one form or another—and quite a range of projects. I am producing a hip-hop box set project for the Smithsonian; I am also working on the acquisition of a large and very exciting music collection for Smithsonian Folkways Recordings. I have some electronic stuff that I am composing and producing for myself, and I have been working on some recordings with live musicians in my studio as well. I feel fortunate that I can experiment, can have my fingers in a lot of pies, and that I don’t feel any pressure to conform or put things out until I am happy with them. I have other creative outlets too.
Michal Turtle's album "Music From The Living Room" is a unique journey through a timeless range of sounds. We are sure he had a window to the future...
As a child you played the piano or drums, and were a part of the school jazz band. How did this influence the evolution of your music?
I started playing drums when I was 8, and I was listening to a lot of jazz records. This was a direct influence from my father, also a musician. I was soon playing in a local symphony youth orchestra, and later in the school "dance band". Piano came a bit later, and proved invaluable as a necessity to get into music college and as a big help with composition, which I was getting seriously into. I originally was writing bits of music at first on paper, and then later bouncing cassette recordings together. Finally I had the luxury of a Portastudio (4 track). I discovered quite late that there was other music besides what my father listened to.
Playing in an orchestra – needing to follow a precise musical score, with no chance to improvise – was it helpful or in conflict with the jazz attitude of the music you composed?
This was an important lesson for me, to know your place in an ensemble where you are playing someone else's thoughts. My writing from the early 80s was very improvisational, and through the 90s and 00s much more structured, as I started writing "proper" songs. I did 5 CDs with my band "wearedust" between 2003 and 2008, and these were songs in the conventional sense, albeit with my experimental sensibilities.
How were then the musical influences around the time of "Music From The Living Room"?
I was not listening to a lot of "normal" music. Stuff that was around and was a big influence: Jon Hassell - Dream Theory In Malaya, Eno/Byrne - My life in the Bush of Ghosts, Holger Czukay - On the Way to the Peak of Normal. I started working at the Laban Centre of Contemporary Dance and hearing a lot of music made for choreography, such as David Byrne's "The Catherine Wheel" I also wrote quite a few pieces for students' choreographies. "Regular" bands I listened to at the time were: Jethro Tull, The Stranglers, Gentle Giant.
What was your studio setup like at the time of when the album "Music From The Living Room" was conceived? Did you work together with other musicians or create it all by yourself?
It was really me using what little equipment I had, and borrowing friends stuff and finding things to play. Someone gave me a vibraphone so I used it, I had a glockenspiel, I made a one string bass out of a metal shovel that sounded good when I stuck the top of a microphone to it. I had a piano in the room but hardly used it. The main equipment was: Tascam 244 Portastudio, Memory Man, a couple of very old drum machines, a syndrum, a bass, a guitar (which I couldn't play but played anyway) an ARP 2600, a Juno 60, a vibraphone, glockenspiel and various bits of percussion. There was no sampling technology at the time, so everything apart from the drum machines was played. I was sometimes triggering the ARP via the drum machines in a random way I didn't understand but sounded good, and various voices and sound effects were usually recorded on looped cassettes (about 2.5 seconds) or just recorded off records, cassettes or the radio. There were a couple of friends who guested on tracks, and some of them will be featured on the forthcoming releases.
Can you tell us the story behind the track name and track production of "It's A Stop Sign Shirley"?
There was a Capital Radio DJ called Kenny Everett who used to link gaps between songs with weird old American "humorous" audio clips, I recorded a couple of them and ran them randomly switching them on and off and running it through the memory man. One of the comments on one of these tapes was what became the title of the track. On this track you can hear the drum machine triggering the ARP in a random way. As with all the tracks it was done on a 4 track cassette running at double speed.
You are also quite familiar with working as a programmer, arranger and also as a composer for commercials and TV. In which balance would you bring this trio with your involvement in orchestras and your own musical productions?
The technology available now makes it very possible and easy to recreate every musical scenario, so a couple of my last productions sound massive, wonderful and real. Drums are now a pleasure to record, and even things I can't play (like guitars) sound fantastic. In 2000 I wrote a musical which was recorded with a real symphony orchestra (in Prague) so there I needed to draw on all my arranging and writing skills to make sure everything was right (and playable) for real musicians to play. I am grateful to my music college training for making me able to do it. Unfortunately these days, budget restrictions do not always make it possible to use the real thing. As I said before, the software is great, but working with real people is more fun, and you learn more.
Have you also had/do you also have another job beside music?
When I left the UK in 1988 I worked for three months in a warehouse, other than that I have always done music. I would always tell people who want to make music not to have anything to "fall back on" but be prepared to not necessarily need money for a long time. If you can deal with that you can be happy.
We discovered the Awawawa project on your website. You basically receive drafts, speech from children and transform them into a song. Its so cool! Can you tell us more about it? How did it start, and what is your aim with the project?
I videoed my friend and his daughter larking about and thought the audio they were doing would make a good track. The first track "Awawawa" was born. About 12 years later I got married, and with my new wife came a couple of kids, so I started recording them and doing the same sort of thing. My wife suggested to turn it into a business, and it seems to be working pretty well. Look at the website (www.awawawa.ch) to see how it works (there are a bunch of "before and after" examples) It is a great outlet for me. I can be creative and at the same time restricted to what is given to me, and there are literally no stylistic limitations.
Benoit Widemann is a French pianist and composer. He particularly enjoyed working with the Minimoog synthesizer. He developed a unique workflow by interlinking two Minimoogs together. The thereby created soundscape is especially prominent on his album Tsunami released in 1979, which combines explosive jazz and electronics. But let’s go back to Widemann’s first music lesson, a world of swirling watercolours and resonating piano notes...
You were only 22 years old when you released your second album, Tsunami. That’s quite young to be producing such mature music. Was there also a kind of callow component that was bringing you to even more improvised, unexpected and interesting results?
I started playing very young and I had good teachers. Notably, I studied with Ginette Martenot, learning composition and harmony. She was the sister of Maurice Martenot, inventor of the eponymous instrument.
I have a vivid memory of my first music lesson at 5: a dozen awestruck kids in a large room, a teacher with a piano, a table with delicate brushes, watercolours and a transparent bowl full of water. The first thing she did was drop paint into the bowl, producing nice filaments of slowly swirling colours, while she held long piano notes until the sound disappeared. We began by learning to hear the note to its end.
Many years later, I joined Magma. I was only 17 but I arrived enthralled by musical science, yet I was humbled by musicians that couldn't read music, but had the real-life experience that I lacked. I learned how to grasp a complex rhythmic pattern, discovered plenty of music that I knew nothing about. I also learned how to solder a jack and drive a truck.
I understood quickly that making music would always be for me a collective thing. Hence Tsunami, which was a group, with my leading role as slack as possible—really more organizational than musical. It worked, but unfortunately it didn’t last.
There is a prevalence of synthesizers in your music. How and when did your passion for such instruments start?
At 11, I met a music teacher whose main job was to play pipe organ. I visited the church and I was astonished by the raw power of the pipes, the sheer number of sounds and nuances available, and the cleverness of the stacked keyboards. I played pipe organ for a couple of years, but at some point I couldn’t stand the religious aspect and I went back to piano lessons.
Several of my teachers were related to the Martenot School and were Ondes performers themselves. I had plenty of occasions to give it a try in all these years, and liked it a lot, although never to the point of focusing on it. My main focus was always on the piano and I didn’t want to get sidetracked too much. Instead, I tried out many other instruments to “understand” them, especially the oboe.
I guess I was fully primed for the synthesizer and when it appeared, it was love at first sight.
Which synthesizer do you prefer for solo work? Is there any you find more expressive, according to your taste?
Definitely the Minimoog. I still play the same one I bought in 1977. The keyboard action is unsurpassed for a lead keyboard, especially compared to today’s keys that feel like soft cheese.
My Minimoog has been seriously customized. It has the mandatory added sync, but also a separate sync for the third oscillator. It has two extra LFOs and several nonstandard modulation routings. It can produce unusual sounds with fixed frequency formants that I like very much, oboe-like. You get the idea. It has no Midi. I never saw the need for a Midi retrofit. The Minimoog must be played on its own keyboard, not enslaved to a master Midi keyboard. It has, however, analog connections and I often use them.
I have owned a lot of synths and I always returned to the Minimoog. Its magical reputation is truly deserved: there is something “alive” about it that is missing everywhere else. Many other synths have come up with interesting sounds: the Oberheim filter was a killer, the simple logic of the Prophet 5 made it a big star for a long time, the DX7’s digital operators changed everything again. Many others should be listed here.
To this day, my favorite set always includes the Minimoog. I also use a virtualized version in a Mac plugin, and the good people at Arturia helped a lot. They updated their Minimoog plugin to include one of my favorite mods, so I could recreate my special sounds with fixed formants. Their work is astounding! Nonetheless, it is not complete: they lack the good keyboard that is needed along with the good synth. The keybed they use is also like soft cheese and they appear to think there is no market for a more expensive one. I think they are wrong, and Moog is wrong too. I hope it will change.
Controlling the articulation is crucial with synths. If you play with a perfect flute sound but articulate like you were playing a piano, it will not sound like a flute. Even non-imitative sounds must be articulated to become actual instruments; finding the proper articulation is part of creating the sound. Hence the importance of a good keyboard.
Could you tell us how you used to record your Fender Rhodes in 1979? Was there a specific chain of fx/ampli/mic?
I used a Barcus-Berry preamp, a MXR compressor and a Moog parametric equalizer. That equalizer was a fine piece of equipment, extremely efficient. Except for the preamp, there was no amp/mic used for recording, we used direct connections in the studio.
We premixed the keyboards: two Rhodes, two Minimoogs and a Polyphonic Oberheim. There was a tape-echo chamber that we used to wet all the keyboards from the mixer. The two Rhodes were placed side by side, each with his Minimoog, with the Oberheim between the Rhodes so we could take turns playing it. We had a great sound system with JBL amps and cabinets.
We were most impressed by the title track, because of its simplicity, but also for the range of sounds used. We are curious about how the track was designed. Is it the result of a spontaneous jam session or of a well-meditated idea?
I was interested in computers and worked with a friend on a Motorola kit. My friend expanded it with a digital-analog converter he built, and then we were able to control the two Minimoogs simultaneously. We wrote a simple duophonic sequencer, and after a few days, we returned to the studio with the kit.
The basic pattern of the track was played by the kit on two Moogs, painfully entered on the keypad, step by step, the night before. But the second part was full of errors. We didn’t have time to reprogram the sequence, so I disconnected the second Moog and played it myself, more freely than originally intended.
The drummer suggested we invert the drum pattern: mark the first beat with the snare drum and play the after beat with the bass drum. He played it while listening to the Moogs in headphones. There was no metronome click; we didn’t have any way to do that.
Then we finished with more dressing: simple wind-effects with the Moog, then the strings-like sound. It was played on the Oberheim with the second oscillators tuned one fifth up. As a result, if you play a C, you get both a C and a G. If you play a major C chord, you get a major C plus a major seventh. Both major and minor chords give interesting results. And finally, the glockenspiel-like sound was also made with the Oberheim and its great filter.
After the final fade-out, there is a horrible sound that goes up and down. It was produced directly with the Motorola kit, actually the result of a programming error that we found very cool. Digital computer-based sound in 1979! We were the avant-garde!
The album was highly collaborative, between musicians from various backgrounds. How did you find each other?
We moved near Toulouse in France’s southwest: we had contacts there and the cultural life was interesting. We met Rémy Dall’Anese, the bass player, and we got along very well. He liked the way I wanted to work. We were about the same age; he was already experienced and had played with several bands. He helped us complete the group with the drummer, Jean-Paul Ceccarelli— he had previously played with him— and the sax player, Gilbert Dall’Anese, his father.
Gilbert was much older than all of us, and way more experienced. But he also liked the perspective of collective work. He had several suggestions for the music and composed tunes himself. He found us a larger house with a massive rehearsal space.
I needed to find the right balance in "leading a collective work," which is kind of an oxymoron. It was not easy. We rehearsed for months, played once at a festival in Toulouse, and recorded the album at Le Château d’Hérouville. I hoped to see more concerts coming and to begin a new phase, but it takes time to have the album pressed, then it takes months before you can organize a tour, and we didn’t have months. Soon after the sessions, the drummer was called to Los Angeles. I moved there with him to look for opportunities to continue, but after a few months, the money dried out and I had to give up and go home. Tsunami was done for good. In summary: two years of hard work, only one concert. At least, one very cool album.
We noticed that you're included in the credits of several albums. Do you remember a project or a particular artist with whom you have found strong affinity?
I had a long-term collaboration with Dan Ar Braz. I was closely involved in several of Dan’s albums from his first in 1977, including “Septembre bleu” (1988) which is my favorite. We recorded it in Hérouville, with Dan playing the guitars and me doing all the rest with synths and a Linn drum machine.
I often worked with Jean-Michel Kajdan. In 1984 we created a group named KWG (Kajdan-Widemann Group), featuring François Laizeau on drums (another great drummer) and Eric Serra on bass, just before Eric began recording his famous movie soundtracks. Unfortunately this group never recorded. There was, however, a later group with Sylvin Marc on bass and Kirt Rust on drums, both great musicians and old friends, and that one left a great album under the name of Jean-Michel Kajdan, “Blue Scales” (1990).
Why wasn't there an attempt to continue releasing more records as Benoit Widemann?
I guess I didn’t care much anymore. The failure of Tsunami was hard to take. The failure of Fusion was even worse. We played a lot afterwards with Jean-Michel Kajdan, but I was less and less involved as a leader, and in our final group I let him drive alone (hence the album being completely under his name).
Still, I always like to play. I love to feel that something is happening with the audience, that some emotion is experienced because I just succeeded in playing the right notes. I have no wish to go further than that. I don’t really feel the need to record, I love working in the studio but I definitely prefer live events, and I don’t care much about leaving a trace.
However, I’m working on a new album with the former singer of Magma, Klaus Blasquiz. It should appear in early 2016 under the group’s name, “Maison Klaus”.
There have never been so many groups, so many events and concerts. It shows that I’m not the only one to like live events, and there is a future in there. Also, the Internet will prevail, both for listening to music and making listeners support artists without parasitic middlemen. We can already see things moving in this direction. Mark me as an optimist.
Halfway Ritmo is a platform that compiles and shares interviews as well as relevant material from artists, which are located within the broad field of jazz and funk and whose tracks are also shaped by electronic components. A special focus lies on the 70ies and 80ies. It therefore gives a rare insight into how their work developed over the time, especially with the rise and usage of synthesizers, which would become a complete game changer in the field of music.
Halfway Ritmo also features a series of vinyl releases. The aim is to introduce people to a type of music, which does not follow any kind of stereotypes or preconceptions, but one that is genuine and conveys a unique sense of craftsmanship.
Halfway Ritmo was founded by Massimo Di Lena and Flavia Lamprecht.
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